Real DC 30 -vs- Helix DC 30 .... same IR's and same OD

[pipelineaudio]

I understand how easy it would be to do the rack mounted PC thing. Long before Behringer or anyone else had tablet controlled computers, we were doing live shows with REAPER running in a rackmount PC, and a laptop doing PC Anywhere and other remote desktop programs to control the show including switching guitar fx and running drum samples and triggers.

However, an all in one pedal on the floor just seems easier for many. I was a rack and 4x12 guy, kind of laughed at all the digitech floor things and later the HD500's and such and the helix, but now I get the comfort and convenience of it

You're also missing all the people who don't want to set this all up, but just want to add plugins or get presets from others. We live in a world where people believe species of trees have specific acoustic properties and only mics made by hitler are capable of sounding good. Its not exactly the type of environment where they're going to be doing something as complicated as setting up a PC and scripting system in addition to everything else.

Helix shows just how powerful the VST integration can be, and how simple. Expanding that to other plugins seems like the next logical step to me

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I understand how easy it would be to do the rack mounted PC thing. Long before Behringer or anyone else had tablet controlled computers, we were doing live shows with REAPER running in a rackmount PC, and a laptop doing PC Anywhere and other remote desktop programs to control the show including switching guitar fx and running drum samples and triggers.

However, an all in one pedal on the floor just seems easier for many. I was a rack and 4x12 guy, kind of laughed at all the digitech floor things and later the HD500's and such and the helix, but now I get the comfort and convenience of it

You're also missing all the people who don't want to set this all up, but just want to add plugins or get presets from others. We live in a world where people believe species of trees have specific acoustic properties and only mics made by hitler are capable of sounding good. Its not exactly the type of environment where they're going to be doing something as complicated as setting up a PC and scripting system in addition to everything else.

Helix shows just how powerful the VST integration can be, and how simple. Expanding that to other plugins seems like the next logical step to me

I can see the appeal, but I really can’t see any situation at all where the benefits would outweigh the downsides. I think stuff has naturally worked its way towards where we essentially are now - each company runs their own DSP on their own HW, and you choose the ones you want to add to your rig.

All of Meris/Strymon/Eventide/Lexicon/Fractal/TC/UA/etc essentially offer sounds you’d get in plugins in HW units. I can’t imagine a generic VST host being reliable enough or easy enough to use, but I could imagine something like an H90 having a platform that allows other developers to port their algos to run on it. That’s about the only way I could see it working - by having a bit of a closed shop. Those sort of arrangements always seem to fall apart before long though and we’d likely end up back where we are now.

More personal opinion here but, live, I think most people can make do with some kind of compromise to approximate their favourite studio plugins. Would be nice for it always to be 1:1, but the playback systems and even use cases are going to vary from what goes on in the studio anyway, and IMO it’s not overly important to preserve absolutely every plugin effect live. In some ways I even prefer shit to be a bit different and vary between recordings and live. Plugins are already often approximating something else anyway.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'm bummed ELK OS didn't explode the way it could have.

 

[ian_dissonance]

But your comparing a product that been out 10 months vs a product that’s has been out 10years , not really an apples to apples
If TMP does not have a Matchless in 2030 you can file a complaint

I don’t understand this argument? Like if Intel has a new processor it’s supposed to be better than the last gen, not “it’ll get there once we figure out the software”, right? These aren’t kids in an after school sport where you’re making a 6th grader play against a senior, lol. You gotta hit the the ground running full speed.

 

[laxu]

I don’t understand this argument? Like if Intel has a new processor it’s supposed to be better than the last gen, not “it’ll get there once we figure out the software”, right? These aren’t kids in an after school sport where you’re making a 6th grader play against a senior, lol. You gotta hit the the ground running full speed.

That's not the reality even for processor manufacturers. There’s an update coming to Windows that can provide some significant performance increases on AMD systems and both Intel and AMD regularly release updates that fix or improve things on existing products.

You have to put out your device at some point if you want to make money. Usually this is when it doesn’t have major issues, and with upgradable software it can be fixed and augmented later. Not having a Matchless model won't ruin anyone's day. They will just use the Vox AC30 model.

 

[EOengineer]

Not having a Matchless model won't ruin anyone's day. They will just use the Vox AC30 model.

 

[BenIfin]

Not having a Matchless model won't ruin anyone's day. They will just use the Vox AC30 model.

Its not a deal breaker if you don't want or need a DC30 ...... you can juice up an AC30 with an EQ and subtle drive to "kind of sound" like a DC30 opened up ..... but the DC30 whilst architecturally similar, is a whole different beast.

Had an AC30 HW before I got my Ceriatone DC30 Clone several years ago before I went digital ..... no doubts .... the AC30 HW series is great ...... but when I plugged in the DC30 and strummed my first few chords it was a revelation ..... it was what I thought the AC30 HW should have sounded like, but never did .... no matter how I juiced it up.

And that's the 12 AX7 Channel ..... once you move over to the EF86 side, the differences are even starker.

In short, the AC30 simply cannot do what the DC30 does ... whereas the DC30 can do everything the AC30 does and then a mountain more.

Horses for course :)

Ben

 

[TwistedTape]

I can see the appeal, but I really can’t see any situation at all where the benefits would outweigh the downsides. I think stuff has naturally worked its way towards where we essentially are now - each company runs their own DSP on their own HW, and you choose the ones you want to add to your rig.

All of Meris/Strymon/Eventide/Lexicon/Fractal/TC/UA/etc essentially offer sounds you’d get in plugins in HW units. I can’t imagine a generic VST host being reliable enough or easy enough to use, but I could imagine something like an H90 having a platform that allows other developers to port their algos to run on it. That’s about the only way I could see it working - by having a bit of a closed shop. Those sort of arrangements always seem to fall apart before long though and we’d likely end up back where we are now.

More personal opinion here but, live, I think most people can make do with some kind of compromise to approximate their favourite studio plugins. Would be nice for it always to be 1:1, but the playback systems and even use cases are going to vary from what goes on in the studio anyway, and IMO it’s not overly important to preserve absolutely every plugin effect live. In some ways I even prefer shit to be a bit different and vary between recordings and live. Plugins are already often approximating something else anyway.

I would love to see an LVX plugin though.

 

[ian_dissonance]

That's not the reality even for processor manufacturers. There’s an update coming to Windows that can provide some significant performance increases on AMD systems and both Intel and AMD regularly release updates that fix or improve things on existing products.

You have to put out your device at some point if you want to make money. Usually this is when it doesn’t have major issues, and with upgradable software it can be fixed and augmented later. Not having a Matchless model won't ruin anyone's day. They will just use the Vox AC30 model.

Updates will come anyways, but you can’t say “well it will be worth it’s price point once it catches up”.

 

[Achilles]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Players wanted bigger and louder so Jim Marshall produced an 8 x 12 speaker cabinet.

Everyone complained it was too heavy......
Such was the dawn of DIYD, DIYD.

 

[Lysander]

That's not the reality even for processor manufacturers. There’s an update coming to Windows that can provide some significant performance increases on AMD systems and both Intel and AMD regularly release updates that fix or improve things on existing products.

Being pedantic, that's a Windows problem - not an AMD one

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Anybody that's been using modelers for many years and is still interested in amp vs modeler comparisons should probably just go back to using amps.

 

[Lysander]

Anybody that's been using modelers for many years and is still interested in amp vs modeler comparisons should probably just go back to using amps.

Hell, anyone still concerned with amp modeler shootouts is wasting their time IMHO.

We've (long) crossed the threshold of modelling being so good across the board that any of the major products out there can be made to sound indistinguishable from the real thing.

 

[metropolis_4]

Anyone who has ever been part of a product release knows how this goes. You have a myriad of considerations driving the decision of when to rollout and what to rollout with for a first release. Often with many competing interests and clashing opinions from several departments.

Ultimately every company decides what they think is the best balance between included features and go to market date

 

[Achilles]

Often with many competing interests and clashing opinions from several departments.

You're not including Fractal in this.

Right?

 

[metropolis_4]

You're not including Fractal in this.

Right?

I don’t know Fractals business, but I would guess they still have some version of that. I bet it’s simpler though being a smaller company with one clear leader

 

[Tito83]

I'm not a fan of the method used to A/B. IMO going through the looper taints the comparison, specially the feel. I've A/B'd pedals in the loop vs in front of my HX Stomp and the loop always change the tone and feel. For such comparisons it should be and A/B box where one side goes straight to the amp, the other straight to Helix.

 

[Achilles]

I would guess they still have some version of that. I bet it’s simpler though being a smaller company with one clear leader

All companies with a CEO have one clear leader.

The reason I mention it they have almost no marketing and their website doesn't change often.
Also..... no new hardware products in a while.....
means not much engineering outside of code writing. (hopefully this assumption is wrong!)
Couple that with no outside sales and distribution and the personnel required for that and it's hard
to imagine many VPs or Directors to advise on major decisions.

All assumptions of course.

 

[metropolis_4]

All companies with a CEO have one clear leader.

True, but depending on the size of the company that person isn’t always the one making the final decision on MVP for a new product.

You could be right about them