Real DC 30 -vs- Helix DC 30 .... same IR's and same OD

BenIfin

Roadie
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Hi all !

I.m.o ...... this is as well done an A/B as you can get .... and bare in mind these are not the same DC30's ... different years, tube, generations etc....



When dialed in by ear, they are soooo f%cking close to identical as to be utterly irrelevant / pointless.

Well done WT !

Ben
 
Being as close as that isn’t a shock to me - IMO this is the bare minimum for any modeller that comes on the market. There’s several years worth of Helix comparisons that are very close to the modelled amps, their modelling tech is more than validated (although can and will be improved further :))
 
Being as close as that isn’t a shock to me - IMO this is the bare minimum for any modeller that comes on the market. There’s several years worth of Helix comparisons that are very close to the modelled amps, their modelling tech is more than validated (although can and will be improved further :))
Agreed. In 2024, there’s zero reason why any device that comes to market shouldn’t be an accurate representation of the real thing.
 
Being as close as that isn’t a shock to me - IMO this is the bare minimum for any modeller that comes on the market. There’s several years worth of Helix comparisons that are very close to the modelled amps, their modelling tech is more than validated (although can and will be improved further :))
Let’s see the tmp do this. Oh wait no matchless in it..
 
Let’s see the tmp do this. Oh wait no matchless in it..
Tbf, there’s very few convincing A/B tests of the TMP so far. No ones been brave enough to shoot out the Recto, Mark, Uber, BE, JCM800 etc.

Would also like to see the UA and TC amp pedals compared a bit more closely. TC’s videos were pretty good and fair, I don’t know why more companies can’t do things like that.
 
christmas vacation squirrel GIF
 
The DC30 was my fave crunch amp in the Helix.

%100 here too. It was the basis of my clean-to-pushed-clean preset ... and my edge-of-breakup-to-crunch tone preset.

Still to this day it is imho, the single best model in the Helix and the best modeled DC30 I've tried ..... I played a Ceriatone DC30 Clone for several years before going digital ....... Ive also tried the FM3, Ampero 2 Stomp. Kemper, NAM, Tonex Amalgam Pack ....

Happily rocking the FM3 now as luckily its AC 20 fills this spot for me perfectly.

Ben
 
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But your comparing a product that been out 10 months vs a product that’s has been out 10years , not really an apples to apples
If TMP does not have a Matchless in 2030 you can file a complaint
There it is again, the same old, stupid argument. A new product must be competitive with the products currently on the market and meet today's standards, not those of 10 years ago.
 
If all I did was record, maybe these type of tests would matter to me. But there’s such a big difference in how things respond and sound when you’re actually playing them yourself; the recorded sound played back on YouTube can only tell part of the story.

I still just can’t get along with the feel and response of Helix amp modeling. I wish I could.
 
There it is again, the same old, stupid argument. A new product must be competitive with the products currently on the market and meet today's standards, not those of 10 years ago.
But who judges what is competitive?
Obviously Fender thought it was or they wouldn’t have released it
And no I don’t think they needed 80 amp models to be competitive but the staples you have to get right you can’t screw up the JCM800
Or HBE .
 
There it is again, the same old, stupid argument. A new product must be competitive with the products currently on the market and meet today's standards, not those of 10 years ago.
I was mulling this over last night in a cannabis-induced thought exercise, and the conclusion I arrived at is this: damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Let's say I start designing a top-of-the-line modeler right now. When is it "ready"?

Do I have to have as many amp/effects models and features as my competition?

If yes, then I'm never going to get this thing to market. What are my other options? I don't want to sacrifice HW or SW quality.

Can I release something with fewer capabilities at a lower price?

Sure, but I do want to continue development of this thing. Do I bake the cost of updates into the product? Do I increase the price over time? Do I take the "paid DLC" approach?
(Honest question: Are there any examples of a manufacturer increasing the price of something as more work goes into it?)

Also worth noting: I need to price the product to support the high-quality parts and materials I intend to use.

Hm. Guess I'll bake the cost of updates into the product--that'll support development and physical build costs. But now I'm back at FAS/L6 prices for fewer capabilities (at the moment)...

Then I have to determine if people are going to trust me enough to buy something at premium with the promise of development.
(This seemed to be part of Fender's problem.)


I tend to agree with the notion that Fender asks for too much $$$ for too few features, especially compared to FAS and L6. But the act of balancing quality, features, and price and actually getting something to market, is all way beyond me.
The is probably an interesting discussion for another thread. I don't have an entrepreneurial bone in my body, but I would be interested in what others think or have experienced.
 
I was mulling this over last night in a cannabis-induced thought exercise, and the conclusion I arrived at is this: damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Let's say I start designing a top-of-the-line modeler right now. When is it "ready"?

Do I have to have as many amp/effects models and features as my competition?

If yes, then I'm never going to get this thing to market. What are my other options? I don't want to sacrifice HW or SW quality.

Can I release something with fewer capabilities at a lower price?

Sure, but I do want to continue development of this thing. Do I bake the cost of updates into the product? Do I increase the price over time? Do I take the "paid DLC" approach?
(Honest question: Are there any examples of a manufacturer increasing the price of something as more work goes into it?)

Also worth noting: I need to price the product to support the high-quality parts and materials I intend to use.

Hm. Guess I'll bake the cost of updates into the product--that'll support development and physical build costs. But now I'm back at FAS/L6 prices for fewer capabilities (at the moment)...

Then I have to determine if people are going to trust me enough to buy something at premium with the promise of development.
(This seemed to be part of Fender's problem.)


I tend to agree with the notion that Fender asks for too much $$$ for too few features, especially compared to FAS and L6. But the act of balancing quality, features, and price and actually getting something to market, is all way beyond me.
The is probably an interesting discussion for another thread. I don't have an entrepreneurial bone in my body, but I would be interested in what others think or have experienced.
Fender obviously knows they overpriced based on the recent $200 price drop which is a fairly large rebate

If you want a great example or why you should not release unfinished products or products that are not ready for prime time IMO NDSP has given a shining example of that and how bad it can hurt the brand
They are finally after 3 years digging out of the hole they made
 
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