Reverb & delay - Helix vs Fractal
- Thread starter sashimi
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I think there is a small difference - that slick 80s 'studio' sound is something Fractal does particularly well - PCM70, TC2290, Eventide style tones.
Guys like Dan Huff, Michael Thompson built their careers around that sound.
Not to say that other platforms can't do these sounds, but rather that Fractal time-based sounds sound more polished and closer to the sound that those rack units were famous for.
"Yes and no..." Because some contributors worked very hard on it... (and because it will be close enough for many less fanatical players)
At least Cliff recently said he may look into it if he has time, to make the Eventide micro-pitch sound closer to the original when selected as a type (I suspect), or to get that easier than to find your block by GNS/Leon (or maybe he could just add the block as a type).
OTOH, he did not want to give the option for the PCM-70 "ugly diffusion" a while back...
Lexicon PCM70: Pan & Circular Delays + TC1210 Chorus
Really cool! Here's a quick noodle using both at once, in parallel: is there a chance you can share the preset?if no is ok.sound pretty good,kudos to guitarnerdswe for making those blocks.
I've had the same feeling than the OP many times, especially on YT vids, i.e,, people floating on top of a "backing track" of New Age delays
("not connected" to it).I've wondered about it and can see at least three possible reasons for it...
- as has been said, this is how the FAS presets generally are(?), and if you have a little knowledge you can tweak that out in seconds(?) and be more connected to your FX (if you feel that's an issue)
- I've seen many times that Cliff prefers things to sound pretty. I think we all want that option too, but to also have nastier and vintage options (which we can do in several ways). I wondered if the PCM-70 is a good example where Lexicon either got lucky to not have enough CPU or made the delay diffusion to sound "bad" on purpose, and this being an extra reason why some claim it sounds better? (may the "ugly diffusion" help connect the dry better to the FX?)
I think I've seen Cliff state you want sizzle/fizz in your amp sound because it makes you sit better in the mix? So this is an example where ugliness connects you to the rest. So why could "ugly diffusion" not be another example...?
- So many vids sound like people are playing through two drives + compressor and YT compression on top... I wonder if that further exacerbates the impression of the "disconnect." (I still have to play my unit much more to compare...)
All of this is, "not an expert; just wondering/trying to help."
I'm not hearing some of these details ATM (AFAIK), but I like to put trust in some more fanatical people and better ears than me re. some sounds that are "important" to me.
Jarick
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I was messing around with some UA plugins today and was impressed how good they sound with so little effort. Seems like it has more immediate character than the Fractal at least for delays. There's not a lot of variety but what is there (space echo, echoplex, lexicon plate, CE-1) sounds awesome.
It did really make me miss how things are on the Helix, where it's more like a recreation of a specific effect than a wide ranging effect dialed in specifically to one sound. Now maybe it's the way the plugins default, like if they were all dialed in to be more dramatic that may change things. But it's nice when something works out of the gate without much fuss.
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Ughhhh... stop. I've been looking at UA pedals, specifically the Starlight and the Galaxy.
Took Axe3 to practice last night. It was good, to be sure it was good. But yknow... it isn't immediate, it isn't instant gratification, and it doesn't look or seem as cool when the setup is put next to a set of pedals?? I accept entirely that this is all in my head.. but I couldn't shake the feeling that I wanted some pedals at my feet.
The issue is - I don't have the right pedals!
Jarick
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LOL tell me about it! I'm torn between wanting a pedalboard because I like to twist knobs vs wanting a multi-effect because I like simplicity. Too bad there's not like a better version of the Boss ME-90...
The UA pedals look really cool but are expensive. I'm curious about trying some Boss stuff too, like the RV-6, IR-2, etc. But you can get an all in one multi effect like the GX-100 for the same as a few cheap pedals.
Hell I've even looked at getting another HX Effects in hopes they fixed the noise issues...
blandified
Groupie
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I've had my HX Effects for less than a year (used with my Tonex pedalboard) and my FM9 for 2 weeks. I think both are good.
On my pedalboard, I used my Bigsky for all my reverbs because I preferred those over the HX... but I had a backup setup where my reverbs would come from the HX. It could definitely be used in a pinch without any issues. Side note - I could never dial in good reverbs, but I downloaded some guys free patch and was happy with the HX reverbs then.
New to Fractal but the reverbs are quite nice and good quality. I easily prefer Fractal reverbs over HX. Do I prefer Fractal reverbs over Bigsky? For CCM/P&W guitar, the Bigsky before the amp is hard to beat. But so far the Fractal is giving me what I am looking for. I am partial to the Deep Space reverb for crystal clear reverbs ranging from simple "hall" settings to big spacey reverbs.... also the Nimbostratus is pretty similar to the Bigsky Cloud, so I've been using that for any big worship guitar parts.
On my pedalboard, I used my Bigsky for all my reverbs because I preferred those over the HX... but I had a backup setup where my reverbs would come from the HX. It could definitely be used in a pinch without any issues. Side note - I could never dial in good reverbs, but I downloaded some guys free patch and was happy with the HX reverbs then.
New to Fractal but the reverbs are quite nice and good quality. I easily prefer Fractal reverbs over HX. Do I prefer Fractal reverbs over Bigsky? For CCM/P&W guitar, the Bigsky before the amp is hard to beat. But so far the Fractal is giving me what I am looking for. I am partial to the Deep Space reverb for crystal clear reverbs ranging from simple "hall" settings to big spacey reverbs.... also the Nimbostratus is pretty similar to the Bigsky Cloud, so I've been using that for any big worship guitar parts.
Karl Houseknecht
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Going to have to try that model at church this Sunday.
Karl Houseknecht
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I can get usable sounds from either unit, but I will admit the helix verbs and delays are far more limited than the fractal offerings. The fractal models seem to sound far more prominent also. Something in the mix law, maybe. Mix at even low levels like 15% in Fractal sounds louder than Helix delays at 50%. Helix delays lack EQ adjustment other than a couple types that have low and high cuts. Makes it difficult to get delays that stand out or aren’t too dark in some cases. Fractal verbs are just hands down better, IMO.
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Do you think that is going to 'go down' well ?
Jarick
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I wish you could adjust the mix law in the global settings for fractal, I’m always running things at like 8-12 percent. Would be nice to be able to expand that especially for pedal use. I think they adjusted for the VP4.
I tend to use the damping frequency control to adjust high end for reverbs in helix and QC which works well. I’m a simple guy so just use the dynamic room, plate, and hall verbs.
Jarick
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Do you find the hx effects to introduce noise to the rig? I got rid of mine earlier this year because of that but was wondering if newer ones were fixed.
Karl Houseknecht
Groupie
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Don’t get me wrong, this is a positive for my uses. Would be cool to have it be adjustable though so everyone could be happy.
Global Reverb Mix
Presets - Fractal Audio Wiki
Global Effects Mix
Presets - Fractal Audio Wiki
SillyOctpuss
Shredder
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metropolis_4
Rock Star
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I used to like HX delays better. Fractal used to have the most boring sterile delays, but they have improved so much the past few years I now prefer them.
For reverb Fractal wins. Except for spring reverbs. There are no winners here when it comes to spring reverbs.
For reverb Fractal wins. Except for spring reverbs. There are no winners here when it comes to spring reverbs.
Mongillo19
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I can't remember, did you ever try the new spring reverbs? I don't think they made it to the FM3?
Jarick
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I think I need to spend a chunk of time just setting up some library blocks in the Axe 3. I was having fun doing self oscillating weird delay sounds running the DM-2W pedal into my amp the other day, then was doing the same thing with the HX Stomp last night. Something in the Axe makes me avoid ever getting that type of heavy effect but it's likely more of a me problem.
Karl Houseknecht
Groupie
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Isn't that just like turning down the mix instead of changing the curve?Global Reverb Mix
Presets - Fractal Audio Wiki
wiki.fractalaudio.com
Global Effects Mix
Presets - Fractal Audio Wiki
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