Boss GM-800 and GK-5

[BROCKSTAR]

A well trained keyboarder however will likely be able to get a pretty realistic sounding guitar performance out of that guitar patch/library

Nah, I have never heard a keyboard player play like a guitar player either. No matter how good the sample. It's stiff and dull sounding when they do it.

However I have heard guitar players play keyboard leads just as good or better...

 

[Sascha Franck]

Personally, I would not use a guitar synth to emulate a guitar. That's why I have a guitar(s) for that use. Which is part of the circular discussion we are having here

I was not saying that anyone should actually do this to use it in whatever musical context - it was just to demonstrate how much is getting lost during the Guitar-to-MIDI translation. I would never even think about triggering a guitar patch with whatever GTM device to actually use it.

MPE, or at least an equivalent of MPE, is already possible with guitar synths that transmit individual MIDI channels per string like the SY-1000.

That's not exactly MPE but just multitimbral performance (which obviously is one of the subsets of MPE, coming along with the additional comfort of not having to deal with 6 separated synth instances). Has been possible around 30 years ago already.

The GM-800 doesn't do individual MIDI channels per string though.

That's not true, in the manual it says this:

This actually helps it's MIDI tracking because the data stream is much less.

I absolutely doubt that. As said, sending the data for each string on a dedicated MIDI channel was possible almost 30 years ago already. Tracking is solely depending on the quality of your GK pickup, its adjustment and the algorithm used inside the GTM circuitry - which is processing each string separately anyway. Sending things out through one channel (poly) or through individual ones (mono) is done after all that. And if at all, it might improve tracking, simply because instead of using one polyphonic receiving device, you could use 6 monophonic ones. Which would likely result in a much cleaner performance. At least that's my very own experience.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Nah, I have never heard a keyboard player play like a guitar player either. No matter how good the sample. It's stiff and dull sounding when they do it.

I don't disagree. But running a guitar patch triggered by a Guitar-to-MIDI device will usually result in even less authentic performances.

However I have heard guitar players play keyboard leads just as good or better...

Leads aren't much of an issue anyway, unless you're doing a lot of double bends and such - in that case you may want to think about a multitimbral receiving synth. Pretty easy to do with, say, Kontakt.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Ok so if leads aren't much of an issue on synth guitar in general, and pads and chording stuff are definitely not an issue on synth guitars, so what is the issue lol.

I'm so confused by this run around conversation lol.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ok so if leads aren't much of an issue on synth guitar in general, and pads and chording stuff are definitely not an issue on synth guitars, so what is the issue lol.

I actually said pretty much exactly the opposite.

Fwiw, personally, I'm really only interested in polyphonic synth stuff. When it comes to leads, I'm absolutely fine with what guitars through whatever FX have on offer, but I really wish there'd be some more well working oddball chord sounds I could add to my arsenal. Unfortunatley, I'm afraid that for the really interesting things it'd still take a hex pickup to truly peak my interest (as in spending serious money).

 

[LScottK]

The Triple Play is garbage.

I'm genuinely surprised to see this comment. I have the Triple Play and SY1000/GM800/GR55. I don't use the Triple Play software (which, if that's what you're talking about, I agree is garbage). But as a pitch to midi converter, I find it works great. And it interfaces really well with all of the VSTi plugins that I have, which has a great deal more variety than what I find in Roland guitar synths. Do you feel that the tracking is lacking? Curious what doesn't work for you . . .

 

[LScottK]

I wish Fractal made guitar synths.

I agree

I also wish that Fractal would buy SIM1 and integrate their guitar emulation technology into the next version of the AxeFX.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I wish FAS would make multiple excellent pasta dishes, too. That way I possibly wouldn't have to head over the kitchen now.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm genuinely surprised to see this comment. I have the Triple Play and SY1000/GM800/GR55. I don't use the Triple Play software (which, if that's what you're talking about, I agree is garbage). But as a pitch to midi converter, I find it works great. And it interfaces really well with all of the VSTi plugins that I have, which has a great deal more variety than what I find in Roland guitar synths. Do you feel that the tracking is lacking? Curious what doesn't work for you . . .

Hyperbole from me aside; it's supposedly a great tool for recording. As a live tool; I tried it once and it failed either the first or second song in. It got sold immediately because of that.

 

[LScottK]

Hyperbole from me aside; it's supposedly a great tool for recording. As a live tool; I tried it once and it failed either the first or second song in. It got sold immediately because of that.

Yeah, reliability is key. It must have been a royal PITA to finish the gig.

 

[LScottK]

I wish FAS would make multiple excellent pasta dishes, too. That way I possibly wouldn't have to head over the kitchen now.

SIM1 is Italian. Fractal is from New Hampshire USA. Making pasta should be included in the intellectual property rights if Fractal buys SIM1. So I think we're good.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yeah, reliability is key. It must have been a royal PITA to finish the gig.

It worked fine for a practice or two. First gig with it and it went dumb. I ended up just using an octave pedal for the parts the rest of the night.

 

[Trollbait]

The Triple Play is garbage.

Some folks disagree. The take away is none of these guitar pitch to MIDI processors triggering samples work that well.

Guitar strings as oscillators Modeling works well.

Nah, I have never heard a keyboard player play like a guitar player either

Here ya go.

 

[Trollbait]

Yup. Doesn’t sound like a guitarist.

It does to me. In order to remove bias, a blindfolded listening test would be required. Sound perception is subjective.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yup. Doesn’t sound like a guitarist.

I think it's varying a lot from part to part. Some of the electric noodling towards the end sounds quite guitar-ish to me, whereas the flamenco bits don't, simply because there's way too many voices playing at once (doesn't sound like 2 guitars, either).

However, for me, the interesting thing is that you'd never be able to get this kind of guitar-alike performance from a Guitar-to-MIDI system, using the same synth patch. Not that this would be of any practical value, but as said before, it goes to show how much is lost when translating guitar strings (and playing of course) to MIDI.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Some folks disagree. The take away is none of these guitar pitch to MIDI processors triggering samples work that well.

Guitar strings as oscillators Modeling works well.

Here ya go.

Big no. Sounds stiff and when he starts smashing the keys you can really tell it's not a guitar.

 

[Trollbait]

The piano on my 1990s Roland GR50 is solid also except the low E string where it will sometimes pitch glitch. The pitch to midi, same results with 2 independent midi Banks, each either poly or select string, pitch and channel mono.

got what the customer was looking to do working,

Do you somehow have a financial interest in the GM800?

 

[Trollbait]

No. And what if I did?

Opinion bias. The gear opinions I consider valid are the ones not trying to sell Youtube ads or otherwise profit off their opinions.

 

[Trollbait]

And no, I do not work for, nor profit from BOSS products

Yes, I got that from your first answer where you said "no".

At least I've actually played the GM-800, and am not going off of YouTube videos.

The reason that I not buying a GM800 is based upon opinions posted on vguitarforums from trusted sources. There is simply nothing new since the GR50 in tracking results from a long line of these Roland romper product releases.

The technology to model acoustic instruments is out there, but Roland chose to use repackage the same old 1989 midi triggered PCM sample snippets.

Every time Roland released a new GR guitar synth, I've heard the same line from some enthusiasts that's it's better than the last. But then folks new to these types of guitar Synths, who haven't adapted their guitar technique to accommodate these sample players, from years and years of practice, come online for help to reduce tracking errors or just put up with it.

The point is, we don't have to put up with it, DSP modeling of acoustic instruments exists now. Why won't Roland use it like they did when they pioneered modeling analog synthesizers, amps, pickup position, speakers, various guitars, and bass guitars etc?

Answer; because apparently there is still a market for Guitar synth rompers.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yes, I got that from your first answer where you said "no".


The reason that I not buying a GM800 is based upon opinions posted on vguitarforums from trusted sources. There is simply nothing new since the GR50 in tracking results from a long line of these Roland romper product releases.

The technology to model acoustic instruments is out there, but Roland chose to use repackage the same old 1989 midi triggered PCM sample snippets.

Every time Roland released a new GR guitar synth, I've heard the same line from some enthusiasts that's it's better than the last. But then folks new to these types of guitar Synths, who haven't adapted their guitar technique to accommodate these sample players, from years and years of practice, come online for help to reduce tracking errors or just put up with it.

The point is, we don't have to put up with it, DSP modeling of acoustic instruments exists now. Why won't Roland use it like they did when they pioneered modeling analog synthesizers, amps, pickup position, speakers, various guitars, and bass guitars etc?

Answer; because apparently there is still a market for Guitar synth rompers.

So vote with your wallet (as they say) for the companies who are innovating and putting out these products. Oh wait; there are none. That's the problem in a nutshell. And leaving anything up to Boss to really smash boundaries/break barriers/innovate instead of their historic "repackage re-release pretend like the customer base doesn't exist after the sale" is a cruel exercise in self-punishment. Ask me how I know. It is what it is and that's it. No; I don't work for Boss. Thank god.