Boss GM-800 and GK-5

[Sascha Franck]

Off topic, but what do you guys use for electronic drum type beats? I have plenty of plugins for acoustic drum sims, but I was thinking the other day that a lot of the tones from this box would pair really well with more e-kit sounding beats than traditional acoustic drums. Are their any plugs that specialize in this, or does the Roland Zen Pro software do this too?

Aren't you using Logic?

 

[TJontheRoad]

Ok, sorry if it has been mentioned already, but this thing is MIDI only, right? So, synthesis is *not* using the guitar strings as a signal but converting them to MIDI only, yes/no? No VG/SY type of synthesis at all, yes/no?
If so, then this thing is not suitable to be played like you would play a guitar as many techniques aren't possible via guitar-to-MIDI conversion. Too bad, as that was what always dragged me towards getting an SY.
Don't need all those guitar-to-MIDI related no-nos ever again (unless I'm recording MIDI parts at home, but that's something entirely irrelevant).

MIDI conversion isn't entirely correct but is somewhat similar. The synth is triggered by the strings in the same way MIDI does but it's doubtful the signal is converted into MIDI protocol beforehand. MIDI resolution and bit rate speed is relatively slow by today's standards. That is partly why pitch-to-MIDI problems happen.

 

[Sascha Franck]

MIDI conversion isn't entirely correct but is somewhat similar. The synth is triggered by the strings in the same way MIDI does but it's doubtful the signal is converted into MIDI protocol beforehand.

Yeah, I know - I was only using the term as it was the most appropriate one. From all I know, that's what they did on their earlier standalone guitar synths already, which resulted in somewhat less issues when playing typical guitar things through them, such as better tracking, lower latency and less glitches.

MIDI resolution and bit rate speed is relatively slow by today's standards. That is partly why pitch-to-MIDI problems happen.

Yeah - but there's more to it as well. There's still no great ways to translate typical guitar things into MIDI, such as slides, string scratching, palm mutes and what not.

Anyhow, so it's pretty much the good old Roland pre-VG/SY guitar synthesis way, just somewhat refreshed. Guess I'll have to pass then. Even if the idea if being able to edit sounds without having to play all the time (but send some MIDI sequences into it instead) is great, something impossible on the SYs (they should add a pre-looper for the Hex pickup...).

 

[Whizzinby]

Aren't you using Logic?

Yep.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yep.

Plenty of electronic drum choices there. Just check out Drum Machine Designer. Or the good old fashioned Ultrabeat. You can even have Drummer play through them - here's a rather stupid video I made for some guy to show some of the options of having Drummer play through Ultrabeat, the Sampler and some MIDI FX. Getting a bit overboard in the end but it's really just been a completely unprepared screen capture, so bear with me (fwiw, that video was made before the new Sampler UI and the Drum Machine Designer overhaul, so the latter isn't even in).

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Ok, sorry if it has been mentioned already, but this thing is MIDI only, right? So, synthesis is *not* using the guitar strings as a signal but converting them to MIDI only, yes/no? No VG/SY type of synthesis at all, yes/no?
If so, then this thing is not suitable to be played like you would play a guitar as many techniques aren't possible via guitar-to-MIDI conversion. Too bad, as that was what always dragged me towards getting an SY.
Don't need all those guitar-to-MIDI related no-nos ever again (unless I'm recording MIDI parts at home, but that's something entirely irrelevant).

I think you have the correct understanding of it except you should consider the millions of ‘synthesizer’ presets that exist through the history of Roland keyboards. You will have access to that catalogue.
There certainly will be piano and trumpet etc where you are vibrating a guitar string to trigger a voice that doesn’t sound right if you play that string like a guitar but there are going to be lots of synth voices at your fingertips that will sound great using those techniques.

You’ll need to lean back on clean and careful techniques to some degree to avoid glitches but it seems that there is lots of room for guitarists to be guitarists. And if you blend the guitar signal in you can find some serious cool sounds that open up all sorts of flying finger freedom

 

[Sascha Franck]

I think you have the correct understanding of it except you should consider the millions of ‘synthesizer’ presets that exist through the history of Roland keyboards. You will have access to that catalogue.

Well, I don't think you will have access to all of it but just the parts the GM 800 is capable of reproducing. Usually, the rest of the cloud catalog is a paid subscription service.
Still, decent sounds.

Yet...

You’ll need to lean back on clean and careful techniques to some degree

Precisely. And it's just that what I don't want. Fwiw, I have a GK-equipped guitar and an old GI-10 converter - and while conversion speed, tracking and what not is pretty lousy compared to newer devices, the main thing hasn't been improved much: You can't play guitar in a guitaristic way. Which is why I still think about an SY-1000.
Before it launched, I thought the GM 800 would have some SY functionality onboard, too, but as it doesn't, my interest is dwindling. For recording I can get away with my much cheaper old guitar-to-MIDI setup and for live I want unrestricted guitar-ish playing.

 

[TJontheRoad]

Yeah, I know - I was only using the term as it was the most appropriate one. From all I know, that's what they did on their earlier standalone guitar synths already, which resulted in somewhat less issues when playing typical guitar things through them, such as better tracking, lower latency and less glitches.



Yeah - but there's more to it as well. There's still no great ways to translate typical guitar things into MIDI, such as slides, string scratching, palm mutes and what not.

Anyhow, so it's pretty much the good old Roland pre-VG/SY guitar synthesis way, just somewhat refreshed. Guess I'll have to pass then. Even if the idea if being able to edit sounds without having to play all the time (but send some MIDI sequences into it instead) is great, something impossible on the SYs (they should add a pre-looper for the Hex pickup...).

The biggest advantage of the GM-800 way of doing synthesis over the SY-1000 is you have complete independent control over amp and filter envelopes per preset regardless of how the strings are played after the initial note trigger. SY-1000 and prior Roland guitar synths all used the guitar's string amplitude/volume amounts to control when, how loud, and how long the sound plays. GM-800 will let you actually program via the ZenCore synth these parameters so a note will play either longer or shorter and softer or louder than you actually play it on the guitar. That's a big step up to it being a real synth and not just a series of filters.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The biggest advantage of the GM-800 way of doing synthesis over the SY-1000 is you have complete independent control over amp and filter envelopes per preset regardless of how the strings are played after the initial note trigger. SY-1000 and prior Roland guitar synths all used the guitar's string amplitude/volume amounts to control when, how loud, and how long the sound plays. GM-800 will let you actually program via the ZenCore synth these parameters so a note will play either longer or shorter and softer or louder than you actually play it on the guitar. That's a big step up to it being a real synth and not just a series of filters.

Sure, that's what MIDI (or the Roland way of treating it internally) is good for. But you're losing guitaristic access.

 

[GM-800]

MIDI conversion isn't entirely correct but is somewhat similar. The synth is triggered by the strings in the same way MIDI does but it's doubtful the signal is converted into MIDI protocol beforehand. MIDI resolution and bit rate speed is relatively slow by today's standards. That is partly why pitch-to-MIDI problems happen.

TJontheRoaf I was about to say he same thing. The only additional MIDI delay would be when using MIDI out to another MIDI module. As TjJon just mentioned, there would be no reason to introduce extra delay by converting to a MIDI protocol for triggering the internal tones. As for the 5 pin DIN, I imagine it uses the standard MIDI 1.0 implementation (1983). That’s the typical for 5 pin DIN connections. MIDI 2.0 can be used over USB or network. This also allows two way communication. It is possible for companies to use the 5 pin DIN for higher buad rates, but both the transmitting device and receiving device would need to support this protocol. If the receiving deceive didn’t support this protocol, it could just revert to MIDI 1.0.

 

[TJontheRoad]

TJontheRoaf I was about to say he same thing. The only additional MIDI delay would be when using MIDI out to another MIDI module. As TjJon just mentioned, there would be no reason to introduce extra delay by converting to a MIDI protocol for triggering the internal tones. As for the 5 pin DIN, I imagine it uses the standard MIDI 1.0 implementation (1983). That’s the typical for 5 pin DIN connections. MIDI 2.0 can be used over USB or network. This also allows two way communication. It is possible for companies to use the 5 pin DIN for higher buad rates, but both the transmitting device and receiving device would need to support this protocol. If the receiving deceive didn’t support this protocol, it could just revert to MIDI 1.0.

No chance 2.0 MIDI is ever getting off the ground with the GM-800 or pretty much anything else anytime soon. No manufacturer wants to be first to implement it.

TJ

 

[GM-800]

No chance 2.0 MIDI is ever getting off the ground with the GM-800 or pretty much anything else anytime soon. No manufacturer wants to be first to implement it.

TJ

Probably true. I really don’t care what protocol they use as long they up the transmission.

 

[GM-800]

Man, I was hoping to see more reviews on YouTube. I’m not sure how many were released in the US yet.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

yeah im waiting for more youtube content too, still waiting on mine... i mean tracking showed last friday and a week later still nothing at my local shop ugh...

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Sighs, nothing today or this weekend.... here's hoping it freaking shows up at my local dealer next week!

 

[Will Chen]

Sweet.

 

[Whizzinby]

I was sorta hoping to use it to terrible effect for this weeks Do Something Challenge.

 

[duzie]

I was sorta hoping to use it to terrible effect for this weeks Do Something Challenge.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Anyone else get one? Need more info and content!

 

[TSJMajesty]

I think I want one of these. Just watched part of Leon's video and it sounds really, really good!