Why is spring reverb so hard to model?

[MirrorProfiles]

Its not just confined to modellers, most algorithmic spring reverb plugins simply don't sound good to me. I didn't rate the Strymon or Eventide springs either. The best software springs I've heard are:

- https://www.arturia.com/products/software-effects/rev-spring636/overview

- https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/reverbs/akg-bx-20-reverb.html

 

[paisleywookiee]

. I didn't rate the Strymon or Eventide springs either

 

[la szum]

Because we live in the era of modulated, cavernous reverbs with 15 second decay times and zero BOING!??!

Seems like a lot more energy has been put into creating a lot of really extended and artificial reverberation
that has no real world, mechanical component like an actual "spring" in an actual "tank" in an actual "cabinet."

Old tech maybe gets neglected and sent to the nursing home to waste away.

 

[la szum]

Quote Cliff all you want. Put the Fractal spring reverb set with modest mix in front of the Princeton reverb model with volume on zero, then slowly wind up the amp block’a volume. The reverb changes a whole lot less compared to a real life Princeton Reverb with its reverb knob on 2 as you go from late night TV volume to watching a movie with the fam TV volume level.

I am willing to bet that cab resonance increasing with amp volume is certainly a factor, since most people associate
stellar spring reverb with combo amps.

 

[norminal]

 

[luckymethod]

I wish there was a Fractal "block share" function. Would be good for stuff like this.

there is.

Sharing blocks between Axe-Fx III / FM3, possible?

As the title say, is it possible to use blocks form AxeIII into FM3? Thanks.

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[paisleywookiee]

there is.

Sharing blocks between Axe-Fx III / FM3, possible?

As the title say, is it possible to use blocks form AxeIII into FM3? Thanks.

forum.fractalaudio.com

Eh, that's more of a workaround that what I'm referring to.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I am willing to bet that cab resonance increasing with amp volume is certainly a factor, since most people associate
stellar spring reverb with combo amps.

This.
I played combo amps with spring reverbs for decades and didn’t think about it. Reverb was just reverb. When I went to modeling the reverb didn’t sound right and I found that plate reverbs on modelers were my thing. Even the new Helix spring wasn’t doing it for me. Then I went back to a combo with a spring reverb and found that it did sound better than the modelers, but also realized that spring reverb generally isn’t my thing. I just didn’t know better before going digital.

 

[jay mitchell]

I am willing to bet that cab resonance increasing with amp volume is certainly a factor,

You'd lose the bet, since that doesn't happen.

 

[la szum]

Oh, Jay. Always so terse, combative, and to the point.

 

[la szum]

This.
I played combo amps with spring reverbs for decades and didn’t think about it. Reverb was just reverb. When I went to modeling the reverb didn’t sound right and I found that plate reverbs on modelers were my thing. Even the new Helix spring wasn’t doing it for me. Then I went back to a combo with a spring reverb and found that it did sound better than the modelers, but also realized that spring reverb generally isn’t my thing. I just didn’t know better before going digital.

We are both unwittingly ignorant and our dreams were just crushed on the Internet.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Oh, Jay. Always so terse, combative, and to the point.

You'd lose the bet, since that doesn't happen.

While resonance may not change with volume, I presume vibration amplitude does. Is there any chance that cabinet vibration is contributing to sound of a spring reverb to a discernible degree?

 

[laxu]

I'll be the first one to say that I don't even care for real spring reverb. Those noisy, fragile pieces of shit tanks are something I'd rather rip out of any head and replace it with a digital plate reverb module. Plus that "reverb level only" control in every damn amp is just too limited. Usually the spring is just too splashy or too subtle but never quite right.

Now that I've got you riled up, I tried the only spring reverb I have, the Volante spring vs the Fractal ones. With the delay completely off the Volante can be just used as a reverb pedal. The Volante was dead easy to get sounding nice.

Fractal tends to default to a bright sound on all the springs. The medium/large spring were more similar to the Volante's spring sound, but could use some extra high cut from the EQ page.

These were all "post amp" and I tried it with my Jazzmaster -> Compadre -> Iridium Fender model set clean-ish -> Volante -> Axe-Fx 3.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Best way to avoid spring reverb disappointment?












Don't use it.

 

[la szum]

While resonance may not change with volume, I presume vibration amplitude does. Is there any chance that cabinet vibration is contributing to sound of a spring reverb to a discernible degree?

Yup. I probably didn't word it to Jay's exacting standards.

I find it impossible to comprehend (likely because I am not smart nor experienced enough) that ramping
up a combo amp to an increasing volume is not going to also get that cab shaking and resonating more intensely,
which will then have an impact on that little springy thing in the little tanky thing that is screwed into and resting
on that boxy, little wooden thing.

 

[fretworn]

Yup. I probably didn't word it to Jay's exacting standards.

I find it impossible to comprehend (likely because I am not smart nor experienced enough) that ramping
up a combo amp to an increasing volume is not going to also get that cab shaking and resonating more intensely,
which will then have an impact on that little springy thing in the little tanky thing that is screwed into and resting
on that boxy, little wooden thing.

Engineers (and many scientists) are generally reductionists in the way they view things…

We understand the quanta… But somehow missed G*d lol

 

[la szum]

Yup. None of our thoughts, emotions, feelings, or values are real anyways. Just the superficial
mirage cast before us by a bunch of impersonal neurons dancing in the dark of our craniums.

 

[metropolis_4]

This.
I played combo amps with spring reverbs for decades and didn’t think about it. Reverb was just reverb. When I went to modeling the reverb didn’t sound right and I found that plate reverbs on modelers were my thing. Even the new Helix spring wasn’t doing it for me. Then I went back to a combo with a spring reverb and found that it did sound better than the modelers, but also realized that spring reverb generally isn’t my thing. I just didn’t know better before going digital.

I'll be the first one to say that I don't even care for real spring reverb. Those noisy, fragile pieces of shit tanks are something I'd rather rip out of any head and replace it with a digital plate reverb module. Plus that "reverb level only" control in every damn amp is just too limited. Usually the spring is just too splashy or too subtle but never quite right.

Now that I've got you riled up, I tried the only spring reverb I have, the Volante spring vs the Fractal ones. With the delay completely off the Volante can be just used as a reverb pedal. The Volante was dead easy to get sounding nice.

Fractal tends to default to a bright sound on all the springs. The medium/large spring were more similar to the Volante's spring sound, but could use some extra high cut from the EQ page.

These were all "post amp" and I tried it with my Jazzmaster -> Compadre -> Iridium Fender model set clean-ish -> Volante -> Axe-Fx 3.

We all have different needs for our gear.

Glad you don’t care about spring reverb, but for some of us suggesting plate as a replacement for spring is like suggesting a big muff as a replacement for a TubeScreamer. They’re totally different colors/textures for totally different purposes.

 

[laxu]

We all have different needs for our gear.

Glad you don’t care about spring reverb, but for some of us suggesting plate as a replacement for spring is like suggesting a big muff as a replacement for a TubeScreamer. They’re totally different colors/textures for totally different purposes.

I didn't suggest anything for anyone, just saying what I'd like to do. I'm happy if I never buy another amp with a real spring reverb tank.

 

[holoholo]

Spring reverb aka best reverb. I can’t do Fender tones without them. That’s like peanut butter without jelly.