What are we watching now?

[State of Epicicity]

Last night we started watching And Justice For All from 1979. I saw it years ago during a run of films that have same name as songs and albums I love. During that run I saw Somewhere In Time (because I love that whole album by Iron Maiden), Eye Of The Beholder (because I love the Metallica song), and And Justice For All (same reason).

I remembered hating the film, with the music being terrible and poorly mixed. After so long, my memory about the music was right; it's by Dave Grusin, and to me it sounds like the worst low budget bullshit no effort TV music for a terrible show. I can't stand any score by that guy. And for some reason, any time the score kicks in it's twice as loud as the dialogue, and I feel like I'm going to go deaf unless I race to reduce the volume right away. Jarring is the word for it.

My first impression is that it's so good to see Al Pacino again. I love everything about his acting style. His mannerisms, everything, just convey the best of acting in my book, tons of personality, 100% in the moment and present to what's happening around him, much like Meryl Streep, total competence, and total intelligence. I love seeing a great actor work. By that I mean I love seeing them work hard rather than just coast through a performance, saying "I can't believe some schmuck is paying me so much just to show up!. Now how little work can I get away with?"

Anyway, we're in the middle of it, so I'll see how it feels overall, but I find the comedic parts to fall completely flat. To me it takes truly great writing and directing to insert comedy into tragedy, or to pull off satire well. This is like amateur hour in those regards.

One huge standout: Robert Christian. This guy's performance is the reason I like to watch film and plays. When an actor is working so hard to create a world and can pull you in, creating layers of their inner thought, just present on the surface for you to get pulled into.

I'm curious to see where it goes from here for me this time around, but just seeing the best of the best in acting makes it worth aspects that really turn me off.

 

[mbenigni]

Trying to watch S2 of Rings of Power. Trying. My biggest pet peeve with TV and film used to be audio where the music and sound FX were 100db louder than the dialog, so you can't watch without subtitles and/or having the neighbors call the police. My new biggest pet peeve is scene/ lighting design that's so goddamned dark you wouldn't know your TV is on if you turned the volume down. Every scene in Mordor and and half of the rest is basically my wife and I staring at a black rectangle on the wall. It's ridiculous.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Trying to watch S2 of Rings of Power. Trying. My biggest pet peeve with TV and film used to be audio where the music and sound FX were 100db louder than the dialog, so you can't watch without subtitles and/or having the neighbors call the police. My new biggest pet peeve is scene/ lighting design that's so goddamned dark you wouldn't know your TV is on if you turned the volume down. Every scene in Mordor and and half of the rest is basically my wife and I staring at a black rectangle on the wall. It's ridiculous.

Fuck the fucking 2000s horror filter. It's being used all over now, and is absolute GARBAGE! Sign of LAZY director of photography just smearing everything in post production feces. Yuck!

PS: The extremely high dynamic range in movies and TV shows is also trash. If I have to adjust the volume constantly, I'm probably not watching your shitty film/show.

 

[mbenigni]

Fuck the fucking 2000s horror filter. It's being used all over now, and is absolute GARBAGE! Sign of LAZY director of photography just smearing everything in post production feces. Yuck!

PS: The extremely high dynamic range in movies and TV shows is also trash. If I have to adjust the volume constantly, I'm probably not watching your shitty film/show.

I wouldn't have thought to call it that, but what's weird is this is exactly the kind of think I'd expect a production team to correct for in post.

We have one of those "smart TVs" where the 3 settings related to actual video are buried in the same menu with your network password and whether you want Prime Video first or last in your list of apps. Display is currently set to "brightest", so I guess if we want to watch Rings of Power, we'll have to use the force.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I wouldn't have thought to call it that, but what's weird is this is exactly the kind of think I'd expect a production team to correct for in post.

We have one of those "smart TVs" where the 3 settings related to actual video are buried in the same menu with your network password and whether you want Prime Video first or last in your list of apps. Display is currently set to "brightest", so I guess if we want to watch Rings of Power, we'll have to use the force.

It started being used in horror movies in the early to mid 2000s, because everything now has to be overly serious, overly dark, and overly gross looking (ie, 40 years of dust and wear). It is mostly, it seems, done due to laziness and because people do not know how to properly light scenes like they did in the 1920s to the 1980s. Then I began to see it spread to everything. It's especially obnoxious in Alien vs Predator: Requiem or whatever the sequel was called. Everything is in black monochrome and is almost completely unwatchable. If I were involved in that film, I would be embarrassed.

As for sound, there really need to be a compressor/limiter built into TVs to stop that crap. "mumblemumble something or other, mush mouthing expositi... BANG CRASH, BOOM! GUNSHOTS! YELLING AND SCREAMING! INCOMPREHENSIBLE DIALOG AT 120+dB! EXPLOSIONS AND SHIT! WWII OR JUST SHITTY SOUND DESIGN IN A MOVIE!? LET YOUR NEIGHBORS DECIDE!"

Whoever is responsible for that, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart: eat shit and live.

 

[DrewJD82]

It started being used in horror movies in the early to mid 2000s, because everything now has to be overly serious, overly dark, and overly gross looking (ie, 40 years of dust and wear). It is mostly, it seems, done due to laziness and because people do not know how to properly light scenes like they did in the 1920s to the 1980s. Then I began to see it spread to everything. It's especially obnoxious in Alien vs Predator: Requiem or whatever the sequel was called. Everything is in black monochrome and is almost completely unwatchable. If I were involved in that film, I would be embarrassed.

As for sound, there really need to be a compressor/limiter built into TVs to stop that crap. "mumblemumble something or other, mush mouthing expositi... BANG CRASH, BOOM! GUNSHOTS! YELLING AND SCREAMING! INCOMPREHENSIBLE DIALOG AT 120+dB! EXPLOSIONS AND SHIT! WWII OR JUST SHITTY SOUND DESIGN IN A MOVIE!? LET YOUR NEIGHBORS DECIDE!"

Whoever is responsible for that, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart: eat shit and live.

I used to get really annoyed with this, but once I got a 5.1 system it hasn't been an issue. I don't know if mixers just aren't giving a shit about the stereo mix for a movie these days, but I do know if I watch a movie that's putting out surround audio and have my system set to Stereo, it sounds exactly like that dynamic nightmare of sound effects and dialogue.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I used to get really annoyed with this, but once I got a 5.1 system it hasn't been an issue. I don't know if mixers just aren't giving a shit about the stereo mix for a movie these days, but I do know if I watch a movie that's putting out surround audio and have my system set to Stereo, it sounds exactly like that dynamic nightmare of sound effects and dialogue.

I think I have had the issue with my soundbar and woofer setup as well, but maybe not.

 

[TSJMajesty]

And this is making me reassess television in general.

Yeah it'll do that. But not in the way you think. You'll now measure everything against BB, and most out there doesn't come close.

Like having a fantastic relationship that didn't work out, which ruins every one that comes after. Or maybe not quite like that.

But yeah, BB is great. I've re-watched it a few times, and I never find any problems with the plot not working out. Very well-written. Surprised it took you so long to discover it.

 

[State of Epicicity]

Yeah it'll do that. But not in the way you think. You'll now measure everything against BB, and most out there doesn't come close.

Like having a fantastic relationship that didn't work out, which ruins every one that comes after. Or maybe not quite like that.

But yeah, BB is great. I've re-watched it a few times, and I never find any problems with the plot not working out. Very well-written. Surprised it took you so long to discover it.

Haha! I love your analogy. I'm so biased against tv, that's my prejudice. I'm very glad there is work out there that disapproves my assumptions, even if there's not much I would like haha.

 

[the swede]

I prefer that (spoiled with a decent OLED) blacks are indeed black and modern film is more utilizing this to the fullest. But it’s both good and bad of course, it’s how they implement that matters. It’s an art.

But i prefer it compared to the backlighting lcd’s and whatnot that plagued the tv industry for years and years making me want my old “thick glass” back. I hated every single lcd i tried when they started to become common. I ended up with a high spec Panasonic plasma and used it all the way until LG started to push things. That Pana did require some electricity though, and it got pretty warm. But the image was sweeeeet.

 

[laxu]

As for sound, there really need to be a compressor/limiter built into TVs to stop that crap. "mumblemumble something or other, mush mouthing expositi... BANG CRASH, BOOM! GUNSHOTS! YELLING AND SCREAMING! INCOMPREHENSIBLE DIALOG AT 120+dB! EXPLOSIONS AND SHIT! WWII OR JUST SHITTY SOUND DESIGN IN A MOVIE!? LET YOUR NEIGHBORS DECIDE!"

Whoever is responsible for that, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart: eat shit and live.

My 10+ years old Denon AV receiver has a compressor built in. I often use it for films like these.

As for overly dark image, that can be a big problem on OLEDs where their static dimming algorithms might kick in where they become even dimmer because the TV thinks there's static images on screen. Ozark is a great series but so dark it would constantly trigger my LG OLED to dim.

 

[the swede]

It started being used in horror movies in the early to mid 2000s, because everything now has to be overly serious, overly dark, and overly gross looking (ie, 40 years of dust and wear). It is mostly, it seems, done due to laziness and because people do not know how to properly light scenes like they did in the 1920s to the 1980s. Then I began to see it spread to everything. It's especially obnoxious in Alien vs Predator: Requiem or whatever the sequel was called. Everything is in black monochrome and is almost completely unwatchable. If I were involved in that film, I would be embarrassed.

As for sound, there really need to be a compressor/limiter built into TVs to stop that crap. "mumblemumble something or other, mush mouthing expositi... BANG CRASH, BOOM! GUNSHOTS! YELLING AND SCREAMING! INCOMPREHENSIBLE DIALOG AT 120+dB! EXPLOSIONS AND SHIT! WWII OR JUST SHITTY SOUND DESIGN IN A MOVIE!? LET YOUR NEIGHBORS DECIDE!"

Whoever is responsible for that, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart: eat shit and live.

Big problem today is that streaming services offer no audio settings. People seem to not care much. Simple soundbar/subs is taking over as the most common thing. While the tv often knows what’s hooked up, the streaming platform doesn’t. So it’s the full on cinema coded audio straight out to the soundbar/sub.

I noticed this when i tried to switch from Apple TV hardware to Apple TV app, totally useless. The Apple TV hardware at least has audio setting to turn off “5.1” or “cinema” or whatever it’s called. Not perfect… still get the occasional jump scare blasts over to speach moments that need turning up.

 

[mbenigni]

Fuck the fucking 2000s horror filter. It's being used all over now, and is absolute GARBAGE! Sign of LAZY director of photography just smearing everything in post production feces. Yuck!

Last night we took another stab at Rings of Power on the bedroom TV, and it was much better. My wife's convinced it's because it was much dimmer in the bedroom (versus living room at noon with a skylight.) That may be a contributing factor, but I actually suspect it's more to do with janky HDR encoding enable/disable mismatch. The "smart" tv in the living room is trying to support HDR and failing, would be my guess. (And naturally, there are no settings to control this.) The cheapo TV in the bedroom is getting signal from a cable box that's detected HDR is not supported.

This is analogous to the way some hardware/ content asks whether you're using TV speakers/ headphones/ surround and decodes accordingly, and some hardware/ content decides at random and makes a hash of it every single time.

 

[la szum]

At least the hobbit was actually based on Tolkien books

So must all TV series and Movies now stick to "source" material? I don't get this Originialist
vibe coming from a Jam Band Bro. Come on man! Improvisation is Life!

 

[la szum]

I love how this Forum gets wordiest relative to Cinema and TV.

Oh, and the Fractal UI.

 

[the swede]

I love how this Forum gets wordiest relative to Cinema and TV.

Oh, and the Fractal UI.

Hey you!!! No F words in this thread….

Jeeezzz it’s fucking fractal everywhere in this place

 

[spawnofthesith]

So must all TV series and Movies now stick to "source" material? I don't get this Originialist
vibe coming from a Jam Band Bro. Come on man! Improvisation is Life!

Fair point but I think something truly based on the silmarillion or similar works would be awesome (albeit perhaps challenging to pull off)

Ill probably try RoP at least one more time but I just couldn't get into the first two attempts

 

[State of Epicicity]

We finished And Justice For All, and my overall impression didn't change. Al Pacino is wonderful in every way. I just love him as an actor. But to me Norman Jewison went wrong with the comedy and the satire; none of it fell correctly. A great contrast is the satire Network by Sidney Lumet, who directs every aspect of it pitch perfectly. The whole thing satirizes television news throughout, but never feels like it's dumbed down. And Justice For All does feel dumbed down in many ways, and that kills it for me, despite some earnest performances.

Now we're back to Better Call Saul. After Breaking Bad, I thought the film El Camino would be next, but it turns out that was released in 2019, wherease Better Call Saul began in 2017, so we're trying to watch everything in the order it was released. We did the same thing with Law & Order a long time ago, figuring out when the Law & Order television movie aired, with the return of Chris Noth. I'm definitely compelled toward this show, and I think Bob Odenkirk has a magnetism through the earnestness of his acting. He doesn't have to dominate every scene the way some actors try to do; it's just through the quality of his acting that he pulls you in. That's the idea behind part of Method acting, from what I understand, that you don't have to be wildly gesticulative to force impact on the audience, that just by genuinely feeling as the character would in the moment, the audience will come along with you. I remember liking Odenkirk in the film Nebraska with Bruce Dern. I had listened to an NPR interview with Odenkirk about that film when it was released, which made me want to see it, but I had not seen anything with him at that time. Now I'm curious to see what other dramatic roles he's done.

One last note: we tried to watch an Aaron Paul film called Decoding Annie Parker, but it was too much for my wife to handle. It's the true story of a breast cancer survivor and a research doctor who was able to make accepted the idea that breast cancer is genetic. The film cut too close to material like Terms of Endearment and Steel Magnolias, where a story that is funny turns brutal very quickly, in an unforgettable way. So we baled before it gets too bad. It's a shame, because it's a Samantha Morton film, and I think she's The Best. I think she's the best kind of actor, 100% dedicated all the time. Aaron Paul plays her husband, and he's not very central to this. I'm really curious to see where his character goes, but to explore more of his work, we'll have to see other films.

 

[State of Epicicity]

So must all TV series and Movies now stick to "source" material? I don't get this Originialist
vibe coming from a Jam Band Bro. Come on man! Improvisation is Life!

My wife and I got to attend this interview with the author Dennis Lehane (Gone Baby Gone, Mystic River, Shutter Island, etc) in Boston, and he said that when he signs away the rights to one of his novels, he does it with no expectation they'll be anything like his books, that they're their own thing entirely. On the other hand, you have Paddy Chayefsky, who was infamous for hanging around sets and trying to veer the work toward his writing to the point where he started being kicked off the set!

To me, source material usually is better. These fucking directors and producers don't write books, but they think they're competent enough writers to be able to edit actual writers. I think improvisation is a contextual thing. A quirk of Shakespeare is that he gives little to no stage direction, so there's all the room in the world to find your best presentation of his words. To me, it's a matter of who is better. If the original novel is kind of shitty, then I say yeah, change it, make it better, but if you're some hack who just wants a writing credit and you're butchering the work of a master, you can go fuck yourself. My agressive two cents!

I love how this Forum gets wordiest relative to Cinema and TV.

Oh, and the Fractal UI.

I'll tell you, I spend my life thinking about music, but I have to step away for my sanity. So much about the world of music bothers me, and I can't take it emotionally. But I can really indulge in analysis of drama in my own laymen's way without getting into the world of filmmaking in a way that drags me down. I can analyze it and discuss it in a safe way. But when it comes to music, I get too fucking enraged, too protective, so talking about superficial things like gear is a way to distance myself from it.

 

[laxu]

To me, source material usually is better. These fucking directors and producers don't write books, but they think they're competent enough writers to be able to edit actual writers. I think improvisation is a contextual thing. A quirk of Shakespeare is that he gives little to no stage direction, so there's all the room in the world to find your best presentation of his words. To me, it's a matter of who is better. If the original novel is kind of shitty, then I say yeah, change it, make it better, but if you're some hack who just wants a writing credit and you're butchering the work of a master, you can go fuck yourself. My agressive two cents!

The big problem is that a lot of screenwriters are simply not good.

I always use the Altered Carbon series as a great example of this. First off the books are written already like action movies. All 3 books are self-contained stories so perfect fit for a movie or TV series.

Richard K Morgan cannot seem to write female characters well. The main male character will fuck pretty much every central female character in the books. At least he makes it up with world building.

It's been a while since I've read the books but I think the screenwriters for the first season actually did a good job with Martha Higareda's character. Similarly changing the AI hotel to be Edgar Allan Poe themed because they couldn't get license to Jimi Hendrix worked well, and I don't mind expanding the role of that in the TV series.

But then they went off the rails by adding unnecessary drama involving other characters. There was no need to change those characters, and one of them doesn't show up until I think the 3rd book.

For the 2nd season of the series they shoehorned two entire books into one season. There was no reason to do this, they could have swapped the order of the books in case they don't get a 3rd season.

As another example, I have to wonder how Alien Romulus could have 3 writers credited and the script is just so bad and full of plotholes that could have been easily avoided. Are they just too far up each other's asses to realize this? Did half of the script end up on the editing room floor to fit the movie into 2 hours? Did they take all their time thinking up homages to the previous films that they forgot to tell a good story? It's a real shame because there's some good stuff in it, foiled by paper thin characters doing things that aren't logical, squeezed into a timeframe that retcons lore from previous films and defies physics.