(UPDATED for new FW!) EVH amp vs Axe Fx, QC and TMP...

[the-trooper]

Any chance we can break out discussions of feel into a separate thread?

 

[timbuck3]

OMG, what if Hotone made a hotub?!? The Hotone Hotub™!

i feel ya

 

[spawnofthesith]

Why @the-trooper doesnt like conversations regarding “feel”

 

[the-trooper]

Why @the-trooper doesnt like conversations regarding “feel”

 

[mbenigni]

i feel ya

Keep your hands to yourself, mister.

 

[ejecta]

And 2019, and 2020, and...

Shoot this stuff was going on before even the place that shall not be named and shunned until the end of time even was a thing. Harmony Central and the news boards before it were like the wild west. Man some of the back and forth was comically brutal. “You have tin (aka shitty) ears.” was thrown out like beads at boobs on Bourbon Street when someone liked a piece of gear others didn’t. Modeling lovers called amp guys “tube snobs” like it was breathing. The debating will continue in some shape or form as long as people are on the internet and married to their product of choice IMHO.

 

[metropolis_4]

One thing I’ve learned over the years: it’s pointless to question what someone else says they hear or feel.

What good does it do me to question you when there is no way I can hear or feel something the same way you do?

If you say you hate the feel or sound of something I love, does that make it feel or sound any different to me?

 

[Lysander]

One thing I’ve learned over the years: it’s pointless to question what someone else says they hear or feel.

I agree - with some caveats. The main example is people claiming to hear 1ms differences in latency which is, quite literally, physically impossible.

Now, if you think that you can feel single digit ms and gear X makes you play better than Y, all power to you (hi, Steve Vai!). Just don't present it to me as a scientific fact.

 

[Gearzilla]

I agree - with some caveats. The main example is people claiming to hear 1ms differences in latency which is, quite literally, physically impossible.

Now, if you think that you can feel single digit ms and gear X makes you play better than Y, all power to you (hi, Steve Vai!). Just don't present it to me as a scientific fact.

They’re both facts if they push a system over a perceptual threshold.

 

[laxu]

They’re both facts if they push a system over a perceptual threshold.

Exactly. If you take that 1-2 ms on its own, you can't notice it. Pile a bunch of more latency inducing gear to it like a wireless system and it might be enough.

I can notice the latency from my wireless system if I use VST plugins on my audio interface, but not if I plug it into my Axe-Fx 3. With the audio interface round trip latency, it gets pushed over a threshold where I start missing notes when I play faster.

Now imagine being Steve Vai who plays 3x faster than me and I could see it as plausible that he would notice.

At the same time there's plenty of people loving how some modelers with higher latency feel to play, so some might associate very low latency as "too immediate", which then becomes "feels digital" or "feels solid-state" etc nonsense.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

Nothing screams full body condom like "HoTub".....

 

[Lysander]

They’re both facts if they push a system over a perceptual threshold.

No, not really. I'm taking about differences here. Of course latency adds up - what grinds my gears are people claiming to notice that product X is clearly better than Y based on latency alone. Our brains have an awful hard time discerning latencies below 13ms, and are physically unable to so below ~5ms.

Anyway, i digress. This is a discussion for another topic - one that has been had multiple times in the past, too

 

[DrewJD82]

I don’t like the feel of latency hindering my fingers from creating tone.

 

[Jarick]

My good old Steven Slate Drums 5.5. Love them and it's hard for me to move away from them. Sometimes I dabble with Superior or ML Drums. Maybe I need to get out of my comfort zone more but whenever I try other Drums I feel like they get in the way of the guitars more. For my channel it's obviously very important that the guitars are well audible in a mix. For some reason the Slate Drums work very nicely together with guitars and that's one of the reasons why I love them so much, aside from the fatness and punch.

And just like that Jon releases a drum tutorial video

You rock my man!

 

[the-trooper]

what grinds my gears are people claiming to notice that product X is clearly better than Y based on latency alone. Our brains have an awful hard time discerning latencies below 13ms, and are physically unable to so below ~5ms.

 

[jellodog]

And just like that Jon releases a drum tutorial video

He was wearing that same red flannel shirt 6 years ago. What does it smell like now? Did it ever go through the laundry?

I NEED TO KNOW!

 

[Gearzilla]

No, not really. I'm taking about differences here. Of course latency adds up - what grinds my gears are people claiming to notice that product X is clearly better than Y based on latency alone. Our brains have an awful hard time discerning latencies below 13ms, and are physically unable to so below ~5ms.

Anyway, i digress. This is a discussion for another topic - one that has been had multiple times in the past, too

Some products have better specs. Better defined as faster processing with greater oversampling. Oversampling differences being a key component historically. I think that portion of the discussion will for the most part be moot come 2025 with the exception of the stragglers.

In non scientific terms feel is essentially the perceived response of the guitar system to playing. Feel is not rocket science except when it comes to describing it quantitatively because measurements have to take into account a number of individual factors specific to any given use case. Someone is either going to get it or not.

Jon’s tests can be entertaining, and in general(though in the recent TMP one it picked up a deficiency with a particular model)they’re more demonstrations in tone matching an amp and some modelers than a capabilities comparison over a broader range of dynamics that can come into play when deviating from his playing sample. Which to me would be significantly more revealing, however a lot more production work—likely not generating a worthwhile increase in traffic for Jon to justify the additional energy.

To me this subject in general has been beaten to death on the Forums.

 

[timbuck3]

He was wearing that same red flannel shirt 6 years ago. What does it smell like now? Did it ever go through the laundry?

I NEED TO KNOW!

he spends all his $$ on gear not clothes..geez

 

[norminal]

he spends all his $$ on gear not clothes..geez

Gear > clothes.

I’d walk the earth with holes in my crotch and my balls showing if it meant my tone was good.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Gear > clothes.

I’d walk the earth with holes in my crotch and my balls showing if it meant my tone was good.

I very begrudgingly bought underwear last week