Some interesting news from Kemper (Profiler Player)

[OneEng]

I am a long time Kemper Rack user (with the Kemper foot controller).

I have given up my dedicated pedal board so I could have an all-in-one solution for gigging.

My HOPE for the Kemper Player was that I could buy one and use it as a backup "Player" for my full sized unit.

I can't because:

1. All premium EFX (delay's reverbs) are missing
2. Performances are not supported

I don't personally use morphing (yet), but I know of many who do.

So for the use case of a Kemper backup (for an existing user), or a Kemper "Throw-and-go" device for an existing Kemper user, the device misses the mark ..... by enough that I won't buy one.

Now, sure, I am not the ONLY kind of user that Player might attract..... but lets look at those too.

How about someone who wants an amp pedal to integrate into a pedalboard?

ToneX: $400. Is it as good? Maybe. The amount of rigs that are available in Kemper's "Rig Manager" and the quality of the rigs that can be either freely downloaded, or purchased might convince someone to go with Kemper Player IF they don't mind not having a screen of any kind (which is possible). It has normal MIDI in/out connections. It doesn't have an efx loop.

HX Stomp: $700. It has a screen. Can utilize all EFX in the premium products (just not as many at once). Has efx loop, the XL version has many more foot switches for $50 more. Has standard MIDI connections, Has Line 6 editor (which is quite good). Arguably, the Kemper player amp tone is better for some types of gain (low breakup).

Fractal FM3: $1100. It has a screen, it will run any efx the premium unit will (not as many), has FX send and return, stereo XLR outs, real MIDI ports, doesn't use a wall wart (built in power supply) and supports an external foot controller expansion.

Kemper Player: $700 No screen, No efx loop, no standard MIDI connectors. One other issue that has popped up on the Kemper forums is that the unit draws quite a bit of current. This could be an issue for some pedal boards.

If I were in this market, I would EITHER go cheap with the ToneX, or use the FM3 as my brain center for my pedal board.

How about someone that wants a SMALL all-in-one throw-and-go multi-processor?

To me, the FM3 wins this hands down. All on its own, it has all the capabilities of its premium parents, but it is smaller with fewer foot switches.

Sure, you can't go nuts with your processing, but what you can do is pretty amazing IMO.

So where do I go from here?

When (If) Kemper sends out an update that enables the premium efx and performances, I might put this on my list for a Christmas gift (or Birthday). As it sits today, not only will I not be getting one, I can't really recommend it to any of my friends for what they do either.

What I would say is that you can get a used Kemper Stage for about 1K. A Kemper Stage runs circles around an FM3 (other than looks) for a gigging solution. It is certainly way more for your money than the Kemper Player. Of course, once you start talking Used, you have to look at all your used options as well.

I think that Kemper was late to this game, and when they finally delivered, it misses many users in many markets.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I am a long time Kemper Rack user (with the Kemper foot controller).

I have given up my dedicated pedal board so I could have an all-in-one solution for gigging.

My HOPE for the Kemper Player was that I could buy one and use it as a backup "Player" for my full sized unit.

I can't because:

1. All premium EFX (delay's reverbs) are missing
2. Performances are not supported

I don't personally use morphing (yet), but I know of many who do.

So for the use case of a Kemper backup (for an existing user), or a Kemper "Throw-and-go" device for an existing Kemper user, the device misses the mark ..... by enough that I won't buy one.

Now, sure, I am not the ONLY kind of user that Player might attract..... but lets look at those too.

How about someone who wants an amp pedal to integrate into a pedalboard?

ToneX: $400. Is it as good? Maybe. The amount of rigs that are available in Kemper's "Rig Manager" and the quality of the rigs that can be either freely downloaded, or purchased might convince someone to go with Kemper Player IF they don't mind not having a screen of any kind (which is possible). It has normal MIDI in/out connections. It doesn't have an efx loop.

HX Stomp: $700. It has a screen. Can utilize all EFX in the premium products (just not as many at once). Has efx loop, the XL version has many more foot switches for $50 more. Has standard MIDI connections, Has Line 6 editor (which is quite good). Arguably, the Kemper player amp tone is better for some types of gain (low breakup).

Fractal FM3: $1100. It has a screen, it will run any efx the premium unit will (not as many), has FX send and return, stereo XLR outs, real MIDI ports, doesn't use a wall wart (built in power supply) and supports an external foot controller expansion.

Kemper Player: $700 No screen, No efx loop, no standard MIDI connectors. One other issue that has popped up on the Kemper forums is that the unit draws quite a bit of current. This could be an issue for some pedal boards.

If I were in this market, I would EITHER go cheap with the ToneX, or use the FM3 as my brain center for my pedal board.

How about someone that wants a SMALL all-in-one throw-and-go multi-processor?

To me, the FM3 wins this hands down. All on its own, it has all the capabilities of its premium parents, but it is smaller with fewer foot switches.

Sure, you can't go nuts with your processing, but what you can do is pretty amazing IMO.

So where do I go from here?

When (If) Kemper sends out an update that enables the premium efx and performances, I might put this on my list for a Christmas gift (or Birthday). As it sits today, not only will I not be getting one, I can't really recommend it to any of my friends for what they do either.

What I would say is that you can get a used Kemper Stage for about 1K. A Kemper Stage runs circles around an FM3 (other than looks) for a gigging solution. It is certainly way more for your money than the Kemper Player. Of course, once you start talking Used, you have to look at all your used options as well.

I think that Kemper was late to this game, and when they finally delivered, it misses many users in many markets.

I'm gonna go with even without liquid profile the old Michael Wagener über Pack and the player have all my other stuff seen like toys.

All this talk about screens and prices... Does it sound 300 bucks better than tonex?...nuh but it sure does stuff tonex can't.
I'm so enamored with it I'm tempted to get a stage.

 

[JCW308]

I am a long time Kemper Rack user (with the Kemper foot controller).

I have given up my dedicated pedal board so I could have an all-in-one solution for gigging.

My HOPE for the Kemper Player was that I could buy one and use it as a backup "Player" for my full sized unit.

I can't because:

1. All premium EFX (delay's reverbs) are missing
2. Performances are not supported

I don't personally use morphing (yet), but I know of many who do.

So for the use case of a Kemper backup (for an existing user), or a Kemper "Throw-and-go" device for an existing Kemper user, the device misses the mark ..... by enough that I won't buy one.

Now, sure, I am not the ONLY kind of user that Player might attract..... but lets look at those too.

How about someone who wants an amp pedal to integrate into a pedalboard?

ToneX: $400. Is it as good? Maybe. The amount of rigs that are available in Kemper's "Rig Manager" and the quality of the rigs that can be either freely downloaded, or purchased might convince someone to go with Kemper Player IF they don't mind not having a screen of any kind (which is possible). It has normal MIDI in/out connections. It doesn't have an efx loop.

HX Stomp: $700. It has a screen. Can utilize all EFX in the premium products (just not as many at once). Has efx loop, the XL version has many more foot switches for $50 more. Has standard MIDI connections, Has Line 6 editor (which is quite good). Arguably, the Kemper player amp tone is better for some types of gain (low breakup).

Fractal FM3: $1100. It has a screen, it will run any efx the premium unit will (not as many), has FX send and return, stereo XLR outs, real MIDI ports, doesn't use a wall wart (built in power supply) and supports an external foot controller expansion.

Kemper Player: $700 No screen, No efx loop, no standard MIDI connectors. One other issue that has popped up on the Kemper forums is that the unit draws quite a bit of current. This could be an issue for some pedal boards.

If I were in this market, I would EITHER go cheap with the ToneX, or use the FM3 as my brain center for my pedal board.

How about someone that wants a SMALL all-in-one throw-and-go multi-processor?

To me, the FM3 wins this hands down. All on its own, it has all the capabilities of its premium parents, but it is smaller with fewer foot switches.

Sure, you can't go nuts with your processing, but what you can do is pretty amazing IMO.

So where do I go from here?

When (If) Kemper sends out an update that enables the premium efx and performances, I might put this on my list for a Christmas gift (or Birthday). As it sits today, not only will I not be getting one, I can't really recommend it to any of my friends for what they do either.

What I would say is that you can get a used Kemper Stage for about 1K. A Kemper Stage runs circles around an FM3 (other than looks) for a gigging solution. It is certainly way more for your money than the Kemper Player. Of course, once you start talking Used, you have to look at all your used options as well.

I think that Kemper was late to this game, and when they finally delivered, it misses many users in many markets.

I'm keeping mine but will store it away until an update comes out where I can actually use it to its full potential.

 

[Mongillo19]

All this talk about screens and prices... Does it sound 300 bucks better than tonex?...nuh but it sure does stuff tonex can't.
I'm so enamored with it I'm tempted to get a stage.

The stage is slick. I do think it's important to factor in the cost of profiles because any savings referenced can quickly go down the drain. For example, how much is that Uber pack you mention? A quick search shows $100 but I could be wrong. Profiles can be a rabbit hole

People buy packs for tone x too....I was more referencing modeling units.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

The stage is slick. I do think it's important to factor in the cost of profiles because any savings referenced can quickly go down the drain. For example, how much is that Uber pack you mention? A quick search shows $100 but I could be wrong. Profiles can be a rabbit hole

People buy packs for tone x too....I was more referencing modeling units.

It is lije 90 bucks but since im a pack rat i still have literally more than twice as many Kemper profiles as there are tonex profiles on tonenet from last time i had a Toaster that lasted 5 minutes. Lol

 

[Mongillo19]

It is lije 90 bucks but since im a pack rat i still have literally more than twice as many Kemper profiles as there are tonex profiles on tonenet from last time i had a Toaster that lasted 5 minutes. Lol

Lol same. I have way too many Kemper profiles so I def wouldn't need to buy more!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Lol same. I have way too many Kemper profiles so I def wouldn't need to buy more!

But what floors me is why i didn’t like it first time around.

 

[Mongillo19]

But what floors me is why i didn’t like it first time around.

Hmmm that is strange. I think rumor is they updated their profiling at some point but idk if that was ever official.

Or maybe Liquid Profiling is really doing it for you?

 

[Enchilada Jones]

But what floors me is why i didn’t like it first time around.

I don’t know if this is why for you but for me it was because, at the time I first tried it, all the other options were modelers.
So Kemper was the only one that made me think I was sacrificing control over the sounds I used.

It was a self inflicted problem my thinking that dialing in tone stack and gain, and the relationship between gain and master was ‘not available on the Kemper.
Until I finally learned that even with the Fractal stuff, where the options were seemingly infinite, I basically dialed up a preset and saved it and from then on it was no more flexible than a Kemper Rig because that’s the way I used it. that was my habit coming from real amp and pedal uses.

i can take a Kemper and fire up Rig Manager and you tell me get a Vox AC 30 with just the right drive and hi cut that I really like and I can do it faster than using Fractal and making a preset.

I think the Stage is a real Pro device set up for consistently having Performances that would be your complete show ready to go. Even a complex show would be no problem. And the surface of the Stage is set up really well once you realize what you are looking at. It’s like the physical version of most modelers signal chain screens with actual buttons and knobs you just watch the values change on the led screen but it is so intuitiv. Like when you twist the treble on a real amp you don’t actually look at it other than to get your fingers on it, after that it’s just muscle memory. Then you add in all the effects and controls for complex Rigs if you need it.

I don’t need all that so I treat the Player as ten ‘Performances’ each bank of five rigs is a single amp type. Like one bank will be a ‘70’s Plexi….5 variations of it on same bank..first three are clean to crunchy…next two are using one of the first three rigs but different delay and reverb settings for solo a change of eq for variety of sound.

so in theory if I was playing in a band context I could decide which amps I need for the show set up and just have to remember what amp type is in bank number one number two etc
Actually my limited time doing live band stuff was classic rock with a Peavey Classic 50 2x12 with a couple guitars a couple cords and a distortion pedal in front and a delay in the loop. So one bank of five with the Player would be fine. I realize that’s a simple approach that won’t work for lots of others.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Still sort of interested in this thing for some reasons (would be a formidable backup and recording tool, I also often need on thing here, the other thing there and I'm not gonna buy a second HX Stomp), but they'd have to offer the full featureset without charging much more (100 bucks or so would perhaps be fine). If they however don't add the parameter locking function, it's gonna be a hard pass.

 

[OneEng]

I'm gonna go with even without liquid profile the old Michael Wagener über Pack and the player have all my other stuff seen like toys.

All this talk about screens and prices... Does it sound 300 bucks better than tonex?...nuh but it sure does stuff tonex can't.
I'm so enamored with it I'm tempted to get a stage.

The stage is a completely different animal.

• All premium effects
• Morphing
• Full amp tweaking
• Screen
• Performances
• Built in power supply
• EFX loop
• etc.

The point is, the Stage is a fully full-time-gigging piece of equipment.

I would agree that the Kemper Player does much more stuff than ToneX, and most of the things it does, it does better. This is especially true of the availability of free and paid rigs for Kemper.

Still, without a screen, I find it hard to see how I could gig with the Kemper Player. Maybe a phone app would be enough for me to know what rig I was using in real time? The little LED's 6ft from my head in a dark room? Nope.

 

[OneEng]

Hmmm that is strange. I think rumor is they updated their profiling at some point but idk if that was ever official.

Or maybe Liquid Profiling is really doing it for you?

I think you are right, but I don't think that the quality of the amp tone you can get has changed since it was released.

The made it so you can do direct profiles (basically snag the amp signal before it goes out a speaker) to have the amp and cab better captured. I didn't notice any quality difference between that and the old "capture both amp, cab, and mic" together method.

For me, the big improvements were:

1. New Reverb Engine
2. New Delay Engine
3. New Drive/Fuzz/Distortions
4. Liquid Profiles
5. Morphing (that I am just playing with)

1,2 and 3 provided a NOTICEABLE improvement in sound quality over the previous processing.

Liquid Profiles did NOT make the Kemper sound any better, but it DID make it easier to quickly tweak a profile to your liking. I find that many more profiles on Rig Manager are now easy for me to get good tone (to my ear) with.

Morphing is a necessary tool for many people as it is sooooo flexible. I am just simple in my needs and haven't wanted to take the time to use it in my band's set list.

Note: The Kemper Player DOES NOT HAVE 1,2,3 or 5. So 4 of the 5 best improvements the KPA has gotten in the last 11 years, the Player doesn't have

 

[JCW308]

The stage is a completely different animal.

• All premium effects
• Morphing
• Full amp tweaking
• Screen
• Performances
• Built in power supply
• EFX loop
• etc.

The point is, the Stage is a fully full-time-gigging piece of equipment.

I would agree that the Kemper Player does much more stuff than ToneX, and most of the things it does, it does better. This is especially true of the availability of free and paid rigs for Kemper.

Still, without a screen, I find it hard to see how I could gig with the Kemper Player. Maybe a phone app would be enough for me to know what rig I was using in real time? The little LED's 6ft from my head in a dark room? Nope.

The screen has nothing at all to do with gigging. It's totally doable on the Player for any able-bodied human with even the worst eyesight. I mean let's get real here.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

The stage is a completely different animal.

• All premium effects
• Morphing
• Full amp tweaking
• Screen
• Performances
• Built in power supply
• EFX loop
• etc.

The point is, the Stage is a fully full-time-gigging piece of equipment.

I would agree that the Kemper Player does much more stuff than ToneX, and most of the things it does, it does better. This is especially true of the availability of free and paid rigs for Kemper.

Still, without a screen, I find it hard to see how I could gig with the Kemper Player. Maybe a phone app would be enough for me to know what rig I was using in real time? The little LED's 6ft from my head in a dark room? Nope.

Out of the Pros only one the deeper profile tweak parameters would in theory be if any importance for me.

I mean I still use a model like I used an amp.
There no switching of presets.
And all the premium delays I got covered with actual delays.
Reverb? Not really too fond of verb on guitar but I got that covered.

I literally just jonesing to waste money lol

But I think I know why I didn’t like Kemper prior, back then I was still mucking around with the controls to “perfect” stuff now if I can’t do it with hands on strings I should prolly move on to another profile or piece of gear.

 

[OneEng]

The screen has nothing at all to do with gigging. It's totally doable on the Player for any able-bodied human with even the worst eyesight. I mean let's get real here.

It most definately has everything to do with gigging for ME. I have about 15 rigs I use total arranged in 5 performances (Some rigs are used in more than one performance, but might have different default efx on/off and different levels to fit with the other rigs used in the same song(s)).

For people that utilize the same 3 rigs (one clean, one breakup and one heavy) and use an external pedal for boosting volume for a lead, you can get along with the player and its crippled visual interface (from the premium offerings).

There are plenty of people that gig that have a more complex workflow than the Kemper Player is capable of handling.

It has nothing to do with eyesight IMO (Yea, I know I mentioned "little LED's 6 ft from my head"). Who wants to try to remember what order all rigs are on what bank and then figure it out by a bunch of LED's in the middle of a gig?

 

[JCW308]

It most definately has everything to do with gigging for ME. I have about 15 rigs I use total arranged in 5 performances (Some rigs are used in more than one performance, but might have different default efx on/off and different levels to fit with the other rigs used in the same song(s)).

For people that utilize the same 3 rigs (one clean, one breakup and one heavy) and use an external pedal for boosting volume for a lead, you can get along with the player and its crippled visual interface (from the premium offerings).

There are plenty of people that gig that have a more complex workflow than the Kemper Player is capable of handling.

It has nothing to do with eyesight IMO (Yea, I know I mentioned "little LED's 6 ft from my head"). Who wants to try to remember what order all rigs are on what bank and then figure it out by a bunch of LED's in the middle of a gig?

Not sure. I use like 20 in one gig and it's not an issue. It's color-coded.

 

[OneEng]

I'm glad it works for you.

It might be that I am just accustomed to having a pro level foot controller and rig. I was hoping the Kemper Player would be a smaller version of the pro level rig I have with my Kemper Rack and foot controller..... It isn't.

Both the FM3 and the Helix Stomp (and Stomp XL) appear to be just smaller versions of the pro rig. Yes, they have less processing power, but they retain the modules that are in their bigger siblings. Kemper Player does not.

It doesn't make the Kemper Player useless, and it certainly doesn't mean that no one will buy it. It just means they miss an opportunity with me and people like me.

 

[timbuck3]

 

[JCW308]

I'm still unable to add amps through Rig Manager. I was able to remove a few that I'll never use. it doesn't seem to hold the amps when I add them. Also, often the amps showing in Rig Manager are not the correct actual amps in the rigs.

 

[Mongillo19]

I'm still unable to add amps through Rig Manager. I was able to remove a few that I'll never use. it doesn't seem to hold the amps when I add them. Also, often the amps showing in Rig Manager are not the correct actual amps in the rigs.

I give you credit. It would be on the way back if it were me