Some interesting news from Kemper (Profiler Player)

[DrewJD82]

Can you reply to anything without a personal attack? I don't really care what random people on the internet think about the things I like. Again, when people like Michael Britt are playing big gigs using a Kemper and love it, they can't be as bad as some folks try to make it out to be. If you don't like it, that is your opinion and everyone is allowed to have an opinion. It doesn't mean everyone else shares it or that yours is the only right opinion. For my uses, the Kemper works well and sound good, to me. If you are just going to reply with another personal attack, don't. I am done with this exchange if the attack continue.

There was a personal attack in the post you quoted?

 

[Mongillo19]

There was a personal attack in the post you quoted?

Probably that Kemper isnt as accurate as other devices

 

[DrewJD82]

Probably that Kemper isnt as accurate as other devices

I’m not even trying to bust balls here, I’m very curious as to what part of that quote is being perceived as an attack at all, nevertheless a personal one.

 

[JasonE]

Upfront ..... don't read the reveal in comments section of the clip below before playing this video back several times.

Not gonna debate or argue which is "measurably better" or anything like that .... I'm well aware of the null tests and spectral deep dives etc.... or what each person prefers ... we all hear and feel things differently ..... and that is humanly unavoidable physiologically .... its all good :)

I posted this video a few pages back and it sank like a stone ... but its quite indicative:-

NAM v Tonex v Kemper v Real Amp

This isnt in any way a dig at anyone ... but I would defy anyone ... including the head "golden ears" at Line 6 or Fractal or Kemper to identify which is the Real Amp and which are the others.

Its 12+ years old .... but for raw Amp tones its as good as anything out there despite all the current AI stuff ... to my ears and hands .. still the gold standard.

No wonder its still the 1st choice for '000's of recording studios and touring bands globally.

Astonishing really when you think about it.

Ben

It is the raw amp tones that I really like in the Kemper. I own two Fractal units a Kemper and another older unit. I just like the raw amp feel of the Kemper. It feels like my amps. I am mainly an amp guy. I had to do a ton of adjusting to try to get the amps to sound and feel like the Kemper on the other units and I still couldn't quite get them there. I am not someone who can't operate technology either. I have worked in technology for many years and I have a lot of experience with mixing in both analog and digital worlds. It isn't for the lack of knowledge and ability to understand how to adjust things. My amps are always my first choice with a pedalboard. If I go digital, I like the Kemper first. There are other uses where the Fractal works better for me.

Owning multiple devices is what makes me scratch my head a little when people are ready to jump into a deathmatch over a device. They all have strengths and weaknesses. They all work better for some people than others. If it sounds good, it is good. People will fight to the death over which is better when they don't even know the use case someone is using the device for.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I don't know what everyone else's experience is, but having spent a lot of time with a Kemper, it's pretty dogshit at capturing Mark, Recto, and other Mesa Boogie tones. Not even close. Everyone always posts up "hey, look how good it captures a Plexi!"

Yay.

IMO, Kemper should combine what he has already pioneered, and mix it in with ML to get an even better product, instead of releasing expensive accessories for his decade-old box.

 

[yeky83]

Interesting. Could you expand on this?? What has changed?? I've seen no reports thus far of any tonality changes, just "workflow" changes in a way.

Nothing's changed. Liquid Profiles sound the same as regular profiles, the Kemper mids are still there.

Very interesting. Y'see, this is what I hate about Kemper. They're so fucking secretive. If this is true, why aren't there blogs and manual entries for this kind of stuff? Why don't they give you exact instructions about how to refine, about what levels specifically you should be aiming for when going into the Kemper during profiling, etc etc.

They're incredibly vague, and I find it extremely frustrating.

I don't think they're overly secretive or vague... but they do seem to just let their ardent users run around making up magical stuff about the Kemper, like the LP sounding different. The Kemper forum is full of this stuff, and all it would take to stop it would be for a staff to come in and say once, "no that's not how it works."

 

[JasonE]

There was a personal attack in the post you quoted?

It has been an inferred attack. He is telling me that my ears are clearly not working correctly because I don't hear things the way he does. I see where things are going so I called it out before it gets out of hand. His last reply is just more of the same. I get it. He hates Kemper. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I am done replying.

 

[Orvillain]

Kemper takes the stance of use your ears.

They provide real time comparison to the real amp.

You would need to continue to refine until you match the real amp when comparing them in profiling mode.

Which to me is a massive cop-out on their part to be honest. I believe they take this stance to attempt to avoid criticism about their capturing tech. But all it does is muddy the waters. You even get people claiming that you have to profile a "certain way" - like the "professionals" - in order to get an accurate capture. And quite frankly, I don't believe M.Britt and Co. are getting accurate captures. I think they're getting close enough, and then they sell their profiles.... and lets be honest, how would anyone even know. Unless you were there at the capturing session, you wouldn't.

When you make a NAM profile, you get a chart at the end of it that tells you how close your capture is to the original signal. When it is something ridiculous like 0.0062, you know beyond a shadow of doubt that it is accurate to what you fed it. Doesn't mean it'll sound good of course.

I really really REALLY think people are getting the wrong impression here - I am NOT talking about whether things sound good or not. I'm talking exclusively about accuracy. You really cannot expect 11+ year old technology to keep up with 1-3 year technology. That just isn't how the music tech space works at all.

Whether you enjoy the sounds or not is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Orvillain]

It has been an inferred attack. He is telling me that my ears are clearly not working correctly because I don't hear things the way he does. I see where things are going so I called it out before it gets out of hand. His last reply is just more of the same. I get it. He hates Kemper. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I am done replying.

Okay, right. So... inferred attacks is it?

Well... when you said this:

I don't care what measuring devices say. I go with what my ears hear.

I took that as a fundamentalist religious attack upon science and our democratic secular society and I was extremely offended. I even cried. You should apologize to me.




(Do you see how "inferred attack" is complete nonsense now?)

 

[Orvillain]

Nothing's changed. Liquid Profiles sound the same as regular profiles, the Kemper mids are still there.

I don't think they're overly secretive or vague... but they do seem to just let their ardent users run around making up magical stuff about the Kemper, like the LP sounding different. The Kemper forum is full of this stuff, and all it would take to stop it would be for a staff to come in and say once, "no that's not how it works."

Interesting to hear that difference of opinion. Hmmmmmmm. Benny Elffin isn't usually prone to hyperbole. I'm still interested to check it out. Even though I hate Kemper. Because I'm a massively interred h8r. Or something.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It has been an inferred attack. He is telling me that my ears are clearly not working correctly because I don't hear things the way he does. I see where things are going so I called it out before it gets out of hand. His last reply is just more of the same. I get it. He hates Kemper. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I am done replying.

 

[Byrdman]

On a different note, no talking-no shilling-just playing...


I'm bout 3/4 of the way through and it sounds pretty good so far to me. Still not something I need right now for $700. YMMV

 

[DLC86]

On a different note, no talking-no shilling-just playing...


I'm bout 3/4 of the way through and it sounds pretty good so far to me. Still not something I need right now for $700. YMMV

This video (the first 6-7 minutes at least) showcases pretty well what I always dislike whenever I play thru a kemper: that cocked-wah sound across all profiles and that piezo-like attack. Am I the only one hearing this? Tone in itself is not bad at all, it's just that I'm never able to dial out those two things (I don't own a kemper, a friend of mine does and from time to time he lets me give it a shot)

 

[Orvillain]

This video (the first 6-7 minutes at least) showcases pretty well what I always dislike whenever I play thru a kemper: that cocked-wah sound across all profiles and that piezo-like attack. Am I the only one hearing this? Tone in itself is not bad at all, it's just that I'm never able to dial out those two things (I don't own a kemper, a friend of mine does and from time to time he lets me give it a shot)

It just reinforces how much M.Britt profiles absolutely blow chunks, for me. Total goat cheese.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The video confirms what I've already experienced; it's great for clean and edge of breakup, but JFC the high gain tones are shit. That Recto patch? Come on now.

 

[JasonE]

Would you guys rather that I just fight back and throw insults? I don't really see that going anywhere good. I can do that with the best of them. I just thought it better to have a rational conversation.

 

[nicolasrivera]

I really really REALLY think people are getting the wrong impression here - I am NOT talking about whether things sound good or not. I'm talking exclusively about accuracy. You really cannot expect 11+ year old technology to keep up with 1-3 year technology. That just isn't how the music tech space works at all.

Whether you enjoy the sounds or not is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Thats why Fractal Audio Systems is the indisputable king in the Amp Modeling realm. They never stop evolving.

 

[Mongillo19]

I just thought it better to have a rational conversation.

You haven't done this

 

[Orvillain]

Would you guys rather that I just fight back and throw insults? I don't really see that going anywhere good. I can do that with the best of them. I just thought it better to have a rational conversation.

Pretty sure we'd rather you contributed to the actual topic of accuracy - which is what this sub-thread is about - rather than make silent but deadly farts in text form.

You don't care about accuracy. Okay cool. So why even bother replying to that particular sub discussion. No-one was attacking your choice in gear. It is a discussion about science. Not a discussion about how cool your mohawk may or may not be.

 

[Orvillain]

Thats why Fractal Audio Systems is the indisputable king in the Amp Modeling realm. They never stop evolving.

Cliff and his team are genuinely impressive with how they handle customer requests and feedback. Fairly unparalleled in my view.