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Haha!
There's a meager handful of folks here whose perspective I value and take to heart. The rest? Yeah, not so much. This thread just confirms that I am on the right track with all of that.
Some interesting news from Kemper (Profiler Player)
- Thread starter DLC86
- Start date
Haha!
There's a meager handful of folks here whose perspective I value and take to heart. The rest? Yeah, not so much. This thread just confirms that I am on the right track with all of that.
laxu
Rock Star
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I'll bite. To me Fractal is at the absolute top of the heap with especially their reverb, delay and modulation effects, in the same category where Strymon, Source Audio, Universal Audio or Eventide reside.
If we take a typical reverb, regardless of type, from any of these companies and compare it to "lesser" counterparts, there is usually more "dimension" and fidelity to the sound on the better stuff. Doesn't matter if it's running in mono, that quality is still there. I feel by comparison e.g Line6 bounces between "good" and "alright" depending on the effect type and whether it's mono or stereo.
These are kinda hard to explain the difference so the best way is to simply listen to comparisons or try some of these yourself. Fractal's room reverbs to me tend to sound more natural than many others, their plate reverbs have that character that you want from a reverb like that and their ambient reverbs challenge anything I can get from my Strymon Nightsky, which is no a small feat.
I don't feel Fractals delays always hit the mark - the quality is there, but they are a bit difficult to work with compared to a dedicated pedal. I much prefer working my Strymon Volante or even the SA Collider, even though the Fractal can sound just as good.
I don't have enough experience with Kemper fx to say that much about them, but every time I've heard them in person, they are in that category of "fine", but not "spectacular". Usable, but not blowing you away. That's not always a bad thing - I think for example the Strymon Flint is one of the best "meat and potatoes" verbs out there, but it doesn't compare to better springs, plates and halls from Fractal, or Source Audio. But it never bothers you, it never gets in the way by being too prominent etc. Those are valuable qualities too.
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tesla does this with battery size: locking down the range for a lower pricepoint and then offering it to be expanded to full capacity later for a cost. Similar no?
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Fwiw, what Kemper seems to plan is similar to how you had to purchase additional models for the POD series from one point on (not sure with which version it started, the XT perhaps?). People never liked that approach too much. Line 6 has changed it with all of their HX series devices. Customers love it and Line 6's modeling line seems to be more popular than ever before.
So why would anyone let Kemper get away with this? Does anyone fear that CK can't pay his bills anymore (I'd take any bet that pretty much the opposite is true)?
So why would anyone let Kemper get away with this? Does anyone fear that CK can't pay his bills anymore (I'd take any bet that pretty much the opposite is true)?
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Clearly not.
To everyone else; I already posted my report on Kemper versus QC and ToneX accuracy. It is pretty clear cut. Plenty of other people have posted examples and data too.
I actually agree to some extent, particularly being a delay fiend. But you know what... cards on the table time.... both @FractalAudio and @Digital Igloo and the Line6 team have always taken feedback seriously. Fractal consistently respond to user demands, and Cliff is always trying to achieve excellence in everything he does, and my admiration for him because of that couldn't be any higher. I'd be proud to call him my boss if I worked for him.
With the Line6er's I understand there are many more bean counters in the chain. I reported bugs with the delays in the past, and they were fixed, and many of the newly added effects at the very least seemed to be in line with requests I made on Ideascale, and when they added the JCM800, I was convinced that they're not just a corporation pushing old IP in new funny shaped boxes.
Kemper? Not so much. Christophe did respond directly to some email exchanges we had, and I commend him for that. But his basic attitude was that he thought the profiling was as accurate as it needed to be, and that even if he could perceive differences in the data I sent him, he didn't really seem to care. That must be true, because the only improvements to the profiling tech that have ever been talked about are from back in 2012/2013 when they improved the accuracy of the low-end, and when they reduced the aliasing. In all other respects, they are one of the least responsive to user feedback companies that I've come across.
Which is why I no longer own a device.
BenIfin
Roadie
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Upfront ..... don't read the reveal in comments section of the clip below before playing this video back several times.
Not gonna debate or argue which is "measurably better" or anything like that .... I'm well aware of the null tests and spectral deep dives etc.... or what each person prefers ... we all hear and feel things differently ..... and that is humanly unavoidable physiologically .... its all good :)
I posted this video a few pages back and it sank like a stone ... but its quite indicative:-
NAM v Tonex v Kemper v Real Amp
This isnt in any way a dig at anyone ... but I would defy anyone ... including the head "golden ears" at Line 6 or Fractal or Kemper to identify which is the Real Amp and which are the others.
Its 12+ years old .... but for raw Amp tones its as good as anything out there despite all the current AI stuff ... to my ears and hands .. still the gold standard.
No wonder its still the 1st choice for '000's of recording studios and touring bands globally.
Astonishing really when you think about it.
Ben
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Everyone has a perception from their point of view that doesn't exactly align with scientific theory.
There are so many variables to captures/profiles that, in the end, there can not be a proven fact.
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It would help if we knew what the variables were. But Kemper can't even tell us that. Even after 11 years. Astonishing really when you think about it. Go and read the Kemper manual on how the refinement works - it is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
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So listening on a laptop here, I heard something "off" with C. It sounded more unique than the others. Haven't read any comments yet.
riffy
Roadie
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- 233
I hope mine work too. I didn't know what was what till I read the reveal. I could hear distinct differences in all of them, but as I said, the Kemper and Tonex sounded closest to each other to me.
Enchilada Jones
Roadie
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- 538
you do realize no one makes an amp or a modeler or an anything that pleases everyone, right?
So the fact that you see a big problem in the data you sent Kemper, and he doesn’t, proves nothing.
If the problem was anywhere near as big as you want everyone to believe it would be a problem Kemper would have to do something about. Instead they keep selling them and people keep buying and using them with great success.
it’s ok, there are lots of good choices. The Player is great for me. Not for you. We both get to make music we like and chances are very good that people in the audience don’t think about the accuracy of our amp simulation devices! Lol
if you like what you use you will play better. The same is true for others, even if you think their choice is proven to be ‘less accurate’!
Jimi Hendrix made himself into a legend by making extremely inaccurate sounds from his guitar and amps. I think we will all be ok no matter what the charts and graphs tell you.
Mongillo19
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BenIfin
Roadie
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![[Nathan]](/data/avatars/m/0/613.jpg?1726885163){kind=avatar}
[Nathan]
Roadie
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- 272
Captures and Modelling will just never be the real thing (for better or worse). We used to split hairs over the final 20% gap between digital vs real amps and now we're splitting hairs over the last 1-2%. To me all of these devices just come down to price, workflow, ecosystem, feature sets and selfishly how slick of a unit they are.
It's so fascinating the lens you look at all of this stuff through. From a studio workflow point of view the KPP is expensive, limited functionality and has no capture ability, virtually makes no sense compared to a toaster (if that even makes sense these days) (.... we can do arguably the best profiling technology for $0 if that's the route we wanted to go with NAM). But from a gigging point of view its a rugged pedal, small, plays back tons of tried and tested tones, gets the job done... sure its pricey but maybe it fits in with your existing pedalboard better than a full blown modeller, would make total sense in that scenario.
I have 0 use for one and I still kind of think its on the pricey and limited side of things. I guess time will tell how many of these are to be seen in 6/12/24 months and if we see the price drop / features added at no cost.
It's so fascinating the lens you look at all of this stuff through. From a studio workflow point of view the KPP is expensive, limited functionality and has no capture ability, virtually makes no sense compared to a toaster (if that even makes sense these days) (.... we can do arguably the best profiling technology for $0 if that's the route we wanted to go with NAM). But from a gigging point of view its a rugged pedal, small, plays back tons of tried and tested tones, gets the job done... sure its pricey but maybe it fits in with your existing pedalboard better than a full blown modeller, would make total sense in that scenario.
I have 0 use for one and I still kind of think its on the pricey and limited side of things. I guess time will tell how many of these are to be seen in 6/12/24 months and if we see the price drop / features added at no cost.
BenIfin
Roadie
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I could not agree with this more ... there is always personal human / player / ear preferences which are irreconcilable from person to person ..... and that is a great thing ... otherwise we'd all be using the same gear.
Ben
