Potential Mesa Reissues? IIC+ and Dual Rec

[EOengineer]

If anyone from Gibson is reading some of us would give a handy for a IIC+. Just saying if you have some extras…

 

[0XI0]

I’m sure the Mesa breakdown stuff is just as anecdotal (or grumpy amp repair techs ) - never had an issue with any of my Mesas.

problem with mesa's is if something does age out it's a rat's nest to get to/understand, mesa "engineering" is (was) NOT engineered as it was "seasoned" into existence. triaxis no doubt had hired in-house real engineering, but the heads/combos up to roadster were just tinkered to life bit by smoking bit

 

[TSJMajesty]

I think we’ve been through this before. You’re going to have a hard time convincing me Friedmans are built nicer, when I’ve seen WAY more in for repair over the last ten years than Mesa. But, that’s not really worth going into.

I've always equated Mesa Boogie with exceptional quality and reliability, which to me was worth a bit of a premium. That may not still apply; I don't know.

OTOH, comparing prices "then" and "now", even adjusted for inflation, keep in mind they don't offer a 5 year transferable warranty any longer, like they used to.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I've always equated Mesa Boogie with exceptional quality and reliability, which to me was worth a bit of a premium. That may not still apply; I don't know.

OTOH, comparing prices "then" and "now", even adjusted for inflation, keep in mind they don't offer a 5 year transferable warranty any longer, like they used to.

Yeah. If I’m to be honest, I’m not delighted with a lot of the decisions they’ve been making. Take a look at what they’ve discontinued lately, it’s quite staggering. They jacked the prices, then there was backlash, so they lowered a bunch of them. I dunno. I’m starting to think people were right about Gibson fucking it up.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

3......2.......1.......

 

[Rock Chalk]

 

[2dor]

what transformers are they going to use tho??

View attachment 31192

Only the very best!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think we’ve been through this before. You’re going to have a hard time convincing me Friedmans are built nicer, when I’ve seen WAY more in for repair over the last ten years than Mesa. But, that’s not really worth going into.

We have. Whatever you think of Friedman’s build quality doesn’t make Mesa’s well designed.

I LOVE Mesa amps, but it’s just a fact that they do a lot of dumb things in their design. Sound killer, legendary company, but dumb stuff everywhere.


here’s a photo from my favourite amp in my collection. Components fitted underneath other components (so to access a resistor, you’d need to remove the capacitor that’s on top of it). Check out how many components don’t have any label on the PCB. Thin traces, cables flying everywhere, traces taking weird journeys. Caps that are rated just below the voltages that are passing through them. Loads that are prone to drifting due to heat/being looked at funny.

Same deal with my Mark III. There’s a reason why Mesa have the reputation they do with amp tech’s, and it has nothing to do with the tone. The design means everything is more of a faff to do and there are certain aspects that are prone to failing that are easily avoided.

Very curious what the reissues do - whether they copy over all the bad stuff from the old amps, or whether they modernise them a bit (keeping the circuit the same).

 

[EOengineer]

We have. Whatever you think of Friedman’s build quality doesn’t make Mesa’s well designed.

I LOVE Mesa amps, but it’s just a fact that they do a lot of dumb things in their design. Sound killer, legendary company, but dumb stuff everywhere.


here’s a photo from my favourite amp in my collection. Components fitted underneath other components (so to access a resistor, you’d need to remove the capacitor that’s on top of it). Check out how many components don’t have any label on the PCB. Thin traces, cables flying everywhere, traces taking weird journeys. Caps that are rated just below the voltages that are passing through them. Loads that are prone to drifting due to heat/being looked at funny.


View attachment 31221

Same deal with my Mark III. There’s a reason why Mesa have the reputation they do with amp tech’s, and it has nothing to do with the tone. The design means everything is more of a faff to do and there are certain aspects that are prone to failing that are easily avoided.

View attachment 31222

Very curious what the reissues do - whether they copy over all the bad stuff from the old amps, or whether they modernise them a bit (keeping the circuit the same).

Honestly this is what scares me most about Mesa’s newer stuff, knowing some of the soft spots in the older stuff. I worry about the long term implications of owning these amps in a world where I think most of us are finding it more and more difficult to reach competent amp repair people, let alone those who dare crack THESE amps open.

I’m not sure I’d own the Mesas I currently do if I didn’t have access to an amazing amp tech who loves to work on them.

None of mine have been problem amps, but tube amps are a pain.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Honestly this is what scares me most about Mesa’s newer stuff, knowing some of the soft spots in the older stuff. I worry about the long term implications of owning these amps in a world where I think most of us are finding it more and more difficult to reach competent amp repair people, let alone those who dare crack THESE amps open.

I’m not sure I’d own the Mesas I currently do if I didn’t have access to an amazing amp tech who loves to work on them.

None of mine have been problem amps, but tube amps are a pain.

Yeah I do wonder if Gibson will modernise the production of the amps so servicing them is more efficient - even for stuff that's sent to Mesa (who have tech's who know them inside out), there's still aspects of the builds that mean they're way more labour intensive than they need to be (without making them more reliable/sturdy etc). The build quality of that "reissue" Gibson amp looked awful internally, hopefully they take some pride with the Mesa name and give them a build quality that reflects the price point of Mesa.

There's also a chance that all the old knowledge of the staff there (who know which schematics are actually correct and which changes have been made over the years) will get lost. Hopefully things are well organized and documented internally.

 

[paisleywookiee]

We have. Whatever you think of Friedman’s build quality doesn’t make Mesa’s well designed.

I LOVE Mesa amps, but it’s just a fact that they do a lot of dumb things in their design. Sound killer, legendary company, but dumb stuff everywhere.


here’s a photo from my favourite amp in my collection. Components fitted underneath other components (so to access a resistor, you’d need to remove the capacitor that’s on top of it). Check out how many components don’t have any label on the PCB. Thin traces, cables flying everywhere, traces taking weird journeys. Caps that are rated just below the voltages that are passing through them. Loads that are prone to drifting due to heat/being looked at funny.


View attachment 31221

Same deal with my Mark III. There’s a reason why Mesa have the reputation they do with amp tech’s, and it has nothing to do with the tone. The design means everything is more of a faff to do and there are certain aspects that are prone to failing that are easily avoided.

View attachment 31222

Very curious what the reissues do - whether they copy over all the bad stuff from the old amps, or whether they modernise them a bit (keeping the circuit the same).

Yeah, I get it. I’m just saying that despite all that, I’ve never seen a deluge of Mesas in for repair over the last decade. That’s all. Which, given we’re a dealer and authorized repair, says at least something a little.

I’m not hopeful for their future though.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Anyone know what's involved in replacing a thermostat in a car made in the past 30 years?

 

[2dor]

Anyone know what's involved in replacing a thermostat in a car made in the past 30 years?

 

[Desertdweller]

Yeah, I get it. I’m just saying that despite all that, I’ve never seen a deluge of Mesas in for repair over the last decade. That’s all. Which, given we’re a dealer and authorized repair, says at least something a little.

I’m not hopeful for their future though.

I have a few thoughts on this conversation. First off I will say I have played Mesa amps for over 25 years now, and have found them to be incredibly road-worthy and reliable. Not just that, but they don’t sound different depending on the quality of the electricity provided like some amps can. I played a gig one time at a club with dodgy electrical, and my buddy’s Marshall was having all kinds of issues that night. My 50/50 I was using at the time was fine.

A few years later when we were loading in for a gig, one of our roadies dropped my other guitar player’s rack from a height of about 5 feet onto the parking lot asphalt behind the venue. The rack was simple, it had a power strip, Rocktron Chameleon, and Mesa 50/50 in it. Nothing was damaged and we played the gig without issue.

I’ve blown a fuse once in a Mesa power amp due to a bad tube. I had some brief intermittent power issues with a Triple Rectifier that went away on it’s own, and I’ve had to replace a switch on a 2:90 power amp - which is an absolute chore in how they placed other components inside the chassis. Other than that, I’ve really had no issues and I’ve owned a lot of amps and I’ve found Mesa’s to be the least-bothersome of them all.

Overall my take is the amps are incredibly well-made, absolutely rock solid construction, but they throw so much into each amp to make them all 7 amps in one and their circuits are not set up for easy access to parts that can regularly breakdown. I’ve taken my amps to Mesa-authorized techs before, but now there is only one left in Phoenix, and he’s on an 8-10 week backup at this point.

 

[laxu]

Honestly this is what scares me most about Mesa’s newer stuff, knowing some of the soft spots in the older stuff. I worry about the long term implications of owning these amps in a world where I think most of us are finding it more and more difficult to reach competent amp repair people, let alone those who dare crack THESE amps open.

I’m not sure I’d own the Mesas I currently do if I didn’t have access to an amazing amp tech who loves to work on them.

I'd love a Lonestar Classic or a Mark V 90W, but I definitely am not confident in buying one to keep for decades due to the tech issue. I can name maybe about 3-4 companies here in Finland that work on tube amps and there's no guarantee they'll be around.

So maybe it's good that Mesas tend to be rare and very expensive even used over here.

 

[Desertdweller]

I'd love a Lonestar Classic or a Mark V 90W, but I definitely am not confident in buying one to keep for decades due to the tech issue.

From my experience, you’ll be happy with the Lonestar or Mark V for 20-30 years without need of any maintenance other than new power tubes every few years. Go get the amp you want.

 

[EOengineer]

I'd love a Lonestar Classic or a Mark V 90W, but I definitely am not confident in buying one to keep for decades due to the tech issue. I can name maybe about 3-4 companies here in Finland that work on tube amps and there's no guarantee they'll be around.

So maybe it's good that Mesas tend to be rare and very expensive even used over here.

Yeah that’s rough. The first 7 years I owned my Mark III I didn’t have access to a good amp tech as well and it was definitely something I thought about each time I turned that amp on.

Mesa amps are generally reliable but tube amps are tube amps.

 

[EOengineer]

I have a few thoughts on this conversation. First off I will say I have played Mesa amps for over 25 years now, and have found them to be incredibly road-worthy and reliable. Not just that, but they don’t sound different depending on the quality of the electricity provided like some amps can. I played a gig one time at a club with dodgy electrical, and my buddy’s Marshall was having all kinds of issues that night. My 50/50 I was using at the time was fine.

A few years later when we were loading in for a gig, one of our roadies dropped my other guitar player’s rack from a height of about 5 feet onto the parking lot asphalt behind the venue. The rack was simple, it had a power strip, Rocktron Chameleon, and Mesa 50/50 in it. Nothing was damaged and we played the gig without issue.

I’ve blown a fuse once in a Mesa power amp due to a bad tube. I had some brief intermittent power issues with a Triple Rectifier that went away on it’s own, and I’ve had to replace a switch on a 2:90 power amp - which is an absolute chore in how they placed other components inside the chassis. Other than that, I’ve really had no issues and I’ve owned a lot of amps and I’ve found Mesa’s to be the least-bothersome of them all.

Overall my take is the amps are incredibly well-made, absolutely rock solid construction, but they throw so much into each amp to make them all 7 amps in one and their circuits are not set up for easy access to parts that can regularly breakdown. I’ve taken my amps to Mesa-authorized techs before, but now there is only one left in Phoenix, and he’s on an 8-10 week backup at this point.

I think people misconstrue some of Mesas weird layout and design ideas with the amps being unreliable.

My experience has been consistent with yours. I’ve gigged Mesa stuff for 25 years. I’ve never had an issue that wasn’t tube related.

My old Dual Rectifier tumbled off the stage at a show and hung by the speaker and power cable for a couple mins WHILE WE FINISHED THE SONG. Never missed a beat.

 

[Desertdweller]

I think people misconstrue some of Mesas weird layout and design ideas with the amps being unreliable.

Perfectly put. They are some of the MOST reliable amps out there. Techs just don’t like working on them because they’re complex and laid out weird inside, but they are incredibly durable.

 

[Elf]

This is my personal experience with Mesa Boggie amps, I owned a Mark IV combo the only reason I sold it was because it was so heavy! It was built like a tank, I traveled with it Internationally a couple of time in a flight case no problem. But I can see how they can be frustrating to work on them, everything inside is so tight and not tech friendly.