Nobels coming in the Axe

[deathbyguitar]

Well...one thing seems certain. If any company models really any piece of gear missing in he the Fractal universe, it will likely show up pretty quickly.

Unless it's a bass amp

 

[James Freeman]

I can't remember my span settings, I will share when I'm home.
Also, my sweep is 10 to 22k, so the 20-20k range is flatter in span.

 

[luckymethod]

He did, but he was doing that on principal basically suggesting that you can roll your own in a Fractal easily. Same with the Feedbacker, if you want one it's not hard to program it using the synth or pitch block.

With all due respect that's total BS. I have the axe 3 and the feeebacker is routinely talked about as the missing feature in the fractal forums. Those crocks with the synth don't sound very convincing while the one in the helix is glorious. I wish it wasn't the case but at the moment the axe has no response to line6, I even dug the HX effects out of drawer to connect it to my Axe exactly for that reason.

 

[Foxmeister]

Those crocks with the synth don't sound very convincing while the one in the helix is glorious.

I can't believe the day has come when @luckymethod has something positive to say about the Helix...

Who are you, and what have you done with the real @luckymethod?

In all seriousness, the new feedbacker in the Helix is really good - it should make the HX One even more tempting for some people!

 

[laxu]

RE: amp versus pedal distortion.

I think amp distortion can live by itself. You don't need pedal distortion. But in my humble opinion, a distorted pedal into a pure clean amp sounds bollockless most of the time.

However, a crunchy pedal into a crunchy amp? Epic.

I've just never been satisfied getting 100% of my distortion from a pedal. But getting some extra OD character or using one to shape the front of an already distorted amp, it is pretty epic.

How many times can I use the word epic in this post? Epic.

I see it as "pedal drive can do different things than amp drive". While I prefer amp drive in general, something like a fuzz or console preamp style pedal like the Hudson Broadcast into a clean amp can be its own, nice and juicy thing.

I like overdrives into a clean amp, but usually don't enjoy distortion pedals.

 

[Stone]

I thought @Stone was suggesting that with the boost section of the amp block there was no need for a separate OD block

Ahh No for sure a OD block is required for certain types of setups as mentioned Fuzz, OD into a EOB type amp
Im sure many ways to configure a OD/Distorted tone , was just observing my needs of late

 

[Stone]

ODR-1 the other green pedal, AKA as the Nashville/Country OD

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I can't remember my span settings, I will share when I'm home.
Also, my sweep is 10 to 22k, so the 20-20k range is flatter in span.

Crap. I've been poking around a bit more, and the FM9 appears to add +18.0 dBFS when you send a signal to it via USB and then bring it right back into the DAW (no blocks except input and output, with everything zero'd and the noise gate disabled). I.e., if you send it a -38 dBFS signal, it will come back into the DAW at -20 dBFS. Weird.

I confirmed it's happening at the FM9's input block, because if you put two output blocks in serial, both of them have the same level.

No idea why it's doing that, but after realizing this and adjusting -18.0dB at the FM9's input block so that the FM9 Klon is now seeing the same input level as Native's Klon, this is how they stack up. There's still some gain differences between the two for an equal input, but the shape is a lot closer.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

With all due respect that's total BS. I have the axe 3 and the feeebacker is routinely talked about as the missing feature in the fractal forums. Those crocks with the synth don't sound very convincing while the one in the helix is glorious. I wish it wasn't the case but at the moment the axe has no response to line6, I even dug the HX effects out of drawer to connect it to my Axe exactly for that reason.

Oh man, if only you could try the new 2203 too. It's even better than that feedbacker.

 

[Frodebro]

Romeo Rose approves this message

 

[yeky83]

Hmmm, interesting. It definitely doesn't appear to be Helix Native, because this is Helix's Klon with "everything at noon," with a full sine sweep from 20 to 20kHz. Looks pretty clean. (The shape is different than Cliff's plots because the freq scale here is logarithmic, while his was linear):

View attachment 14140

A)You quoted the wrong post. B)Your graph looks weird here, the hump freq is wrong, is it the slope thing you mentioned? C) CC’s graphs are in log scale, dunno where you see linear.

Crap. I've been poking around a bit more, and the FM9 appears to add +18.0 dBFS when you send a signal to it via USB and then bring it right back into the DAW (no blocks except input and output, with everything zero'd and the noise gate disabled). I.e., if you send it a -38 dBFS signal, it will come back into the DAW at -20 dBFS. Weird.

I confirmed it's happening at the FM9's input block, because if you put two output blocks in serial, both of them have the same level.

No idea why it's doing that, but after realizing this and adjusting -18.0dB at the FM9's input block so that the FM9 Klon is now seeing the same input level as Native's Klon, this is how they stack up. There's still some gain differences between the two for an equal input, but the shape is a lot closer.

View attachment 14160

View attachment 14159

View attachment 14161

HX Klon’s no hump flat bottom-to-mids looks weird to me…? Looking at circuit analysis pages, I wouldn’t expect that…

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

 

[jellodog]

ODR-1 the other green pedal, AKA as the Nashville/Country OD

There ain't nuthin Country 'bout my sound!

 

[JiveTurkey]

My sound

 

[Will Chen]

With all due respect that's total BS. I have the axe 3 and the feeebacker is routinely talked about as the missing feature in the fractal forums. Those crocks with the synth don't sound very convincing while the one in the helix is glorious. I wish it wasn't the case but at the moment the axe has no response to line6, I even dug the HX effects out of drawer to connect it to my Axe exactly for that reason.

Meh...we all hear things differently I guess. The synth implementation sounds fantastic to me on single note lines, obviously on chords the Line 6/DigiTech method excels. Perhaps I'll shoot a head to head tomorrow

 

[mbenigni]

Feedbacker incoming! :)

Although didn't Cliff resist adding a Klon for about a century or two?

Felt like a Centaury.

 

[James Freeman]

@SwirlyMaple, that's for a 10-22k 10sec sweep, you should get a really nice flat line.

 

[James Freeman]

Crap. I've been poking around a bit more, and the FM9 appears to add +18.0 dBFS when you send a signal to it via USB and then bring it right back into the DAW (no blocks except input and output, with everything zero'd and the noise gate disabled). I.e., if you send it a -38 dBFS signal, it will come back into the DAW at -20 dBFS. Weird.

Same with SPDIF.
No idea why Fractal chose to do that.

 

[dk_ace]

Personally, I never understood the amount of hype some pedals get, including this one.

It does something simple, but unique, for pedal drives. It just distorts the sound of the guitar while changing the basic character of the guitar in the most minimal way possible. So, if you like the sound you have right now and just want it to be more distorted the nobels can do that. It also has a distortion character that is pretty “natural” and amp like.

It’s basically a pedal drive that stays out of the way and doesn’t push your tone any given direction if you don’t want it to. Pretty handy tool, and there aren’t many things that do what it does. Most of the drives people refer to as “transparent” are really mid-forward and often cut bass. This one isn’t and doesn’t.

I find it useful in helix for the same things it’s great for IRL. Dial in a beautiful, sparkly blackface clean tone and then have a drive you can turn on in front of it that doesn’t suck. Yes, I can do that by changing all the amp settings with a footswitch, but the drive pedal is a faster approach tabs easier to manage.

D

 

[SwirlyMaple]

A)You quoted the wrong post. B)Your graph looks weird here, the hump freq is wrong, is it the slope thing you mentioned? C) CC’s graphs are in log scale, dunno where you see linear.

A) Just sloppy replying on my part. Was responding to that person and what they said, but still talking about the original post at the start of this thread. My goal here was just to see if Cliff’s comparison device was the HX or something else.

B) Yeah, sorry. The first plots I posted will just confuse things due to that slope setting in SPAN. I considered deleting those replies, but then the context for the next ones would be lost. Cleaned it up just now and deleted the first plots.

C) You’re absolutely right, sorry bout that. Brain was tired last night and I didn’t look closely enough.

HX Klon’s no hump flat bottom-to-mids looks weird to me…? Looking at circuit analysis pages, I wouldn’t expect that…

The plots in my last reply I think are correct for both (within the limitations of the free version of SPAN, an FFT analyzer, vs. the more sophisticated TrueRTA software that Cliff uses). Running the sine sweep through each with the Klon blocks disabled gave a flat line of equal magnitude. Engaging the Klons gave the traces seen on the plots. I normally don’t use SPAN and am only just getting familiar with it, so it’s possible something about my settings was still wonky though. :)

The HX Klon plot does have that hump for lower level input signals. It flattens out as you get to a “high” signal level (-18dBFS in Native is the max you’ll ever see with single coil pickups strumming hard when using the Helix as the interface.)