NDSP Quad Cortex

[mikah912]

My clips in mono into the front of amp, bear in mind.

The reverbs on QC are much more to my taste than the Helix ones. I love the Fractal ones though, especially Cumulonimbus.

I'm not that arsed about spring reverbs. I think they're generally terrible sounding, even hardware ones.

Helix doesn't have a single generation of reverbs, tho. There are three tiers:

1. Legacy batch from the HD era (Available at launch 9 years ago)
2. HX "ambient" ones (Available six or so years ago)
3. Latest generation with "Dynamic" variants and "Hot Springs" (Available 2-3 years ago)

A lot of people are getting their "Helix ambient reverbs are so metallic and imbalanced in the mix" takes from number two, and it's not totally unwarranted. There are a couple in that tier that IO think are flat out terrible, and I've never been able to make them work for me.

But the third tier smokes anything on QC. The Helix Dynamic Hall is a better spacey, ambient reverb than anything else I've heard on either device.

Spring reverb is a non-negotiable for "vintage" tones of all stripes, IMHO. It can be a lot more than drippy surf/spy pablum. It's great for subtly giving a lived-in feel to funk/jazz/blues tones.

 

[mbenigni]

I guess the last refuge is to wait for Black Friday, then stock up on the paid DLC that is the plugins. Those have much better reverbs to my ears, and it should only cost you an extra $200-$300 (with sale prices) to get spring and ambient reverbs that can hang with the big boys.

Which (if any) NDSP plugins have a legit Spring reverb? I had assumed the Morgan suite would have one, but the description on their website is the same generic text as on most (all?) of their other plugins. ("An easy to use studio-grade reverb that covers everything from subtle reflections to infinite ethereal soundscapes.")

 

[Orvillain]

Helix doesn't have a single generation of reverbs, tho. There are three tiers:

1. Legacy batch from the HD era
2. Five "ambient"ones (Searchlight, Ganymede, etc.)
3. Latest generation with "Dynamic" variants and "Hot Springs".

A lot of people are getting their "Helix ambient reverbs are so metallic and imbalanced in the mix" takes from number two, and it's not totally unwarranted. There are a couple in that tier that IO think are flat out terrible, and I've never been able to make them work for me.

But the third tier smokes anything on QC. The Helix Dynamic Hall is a better spacey, ambient reverb than anything else I've heard on either device.

I fundamentally disagree. I've been pulling my punches because I'm very fond of the Helix platform, but there isn't a single reverb in Helix that can get the smoothness of my clip above. I'm dissatisfied with nearly all of the reverbs on there, and it is a huge reason why I started exploring other platforms. Dynamic Hall sounds grainy, artificial, metallic, and all around not as good as the Mind Hall on QC.

Ears hey!?!

 

[mikah912]

I fundamentally disagree. I've been pulling my punches because I'm very fond of the Helix platform, but there isn't a single reverb in Helix that can get the smoothness of my clip above. I'm dissatisfied with nearly all of the reverbs on there, and it is a huge reason why I started exploring other platforms. Dynamic Hall sounds grainy, artificial, metallic, and all around not as good as the Mind Hall on QC.

Ears hey!?!

Nothing wrong there, sir. We hear what we hear.

 

[mbenigni]

Helix doesn't have a single generation of reverbs, tho. There are three tiers:

1. Legacy batch from the HD era
2. Five "ambient"ones (Searchlight, Ganymede, etc.)
3. Latest generation with "Dynamic" variants and "Hot Springs".

A lot of people are getting their "Helix ambient reverbs are so metallic and imbalanced in the mix" takes from number two, and it's not totally unwarranted. There are a couple in that tier that IO think are flat out terrible, and I've never been able to make them work for me.

But the third tier smokes anything on QC. The Helix Dynamic Hall is a better spacey, ambient reverb than anything else I've heard on either device.

Spring reverb is a non-negotiable for "vintage" tones of all stripes, IMHO. It can be a lot more than drippy surf/spy pablum. It's great for subtly giving a lived-in feel to funk/jazz/blues tones.

I think there are good (and bad) reverbs in all three tiers. I was disappointed that the Hot Springs wasn't capable of sounding more like an actual spring. It's more of a character verb, and it never really did much for me. "Tier 2" (i.e. launch HX tech) had a lot of good stuff, but you had to work at it, usually picking an over-complicated reverb and dialing out the modulations to find a good core tone underneath.

QC isn't fancy (and the spring sux) but I can usually just throw a hall or a plate on, turn the mix and delay knob, and be happy.

Axe III/ FM9 reverbs are incredible. If the FM3 had gotten the new spring, I might have kept it for that one trick alone.

 

[Orvillain]

Axe/ FM9 reverbs are incredible. If the FM3 had gotten the new spring, I might have kept for that one trick alone.

Adding this new Fractal multi-effects to Helix, or QC, or Kemper, or your UA amp-stompo board, or your tubescreamer homage board, etc etc etc..... gonna be a winning combination!

 

[Orvillain]

Nothing wrong there, sir. We hear what we hear.

Yeah absolutely, we all hear and want different things. But I just took another listen.... the Dynamic Hall is smooth... but it feels like at all settings there is this filtering going on that quickly kills the high frequencies, even with dampening cranked wide open and the high-cut wide open... whereas on the QC you can hear I pluck a note and the high-frequency energy decays for a long time, carrying the note into the next chord in a very pleasing way.

I think this is the defining difference that I hear. The Helix reverbs don't decay away in a musically pleasing way for me. So it is probably less about smoothness, and more about clarity and musicality.

 

[mikah912]

Which (if any) NDSP plugins have a legit Spring reverb? I had assumed the Morgan suite would have one, but the description on their website is the same generic text as on most (all?) of their other plugins. ("An easy to use studio-grade reverb that covers everything from subtle reflections to infinite ethereal soundscapes.")

I think they modeled the tube spring reverb on the Morgan SW50 as part of their suite, but looks like it's only available in that amp block, not in the reverb block.

So, not even the plugins can deliver you from that wretched "spring" reverb. Blech....

 

[mbenigni]

Adding this new Fractal multi-effects to Helix, or QC, or Kemper, or your UA amp-stompo board, or your tubescreamer homage board, etc etc etc..... gonna be a winning combination!

Agree, but it's not for me. Life's too short to program MIDI integration between two multi-effects units, etc. etc. etc. I remember when I thought that sort of work was fun. The older (and busier) I get, the more that extra 20 minutes looks like somebody else's problem. Put it in one easy-to-use box, or I'll buy someone else's one easy-to-use box.

 

[mbenigni]

I think they modeled the tube spring reverb on the Morgan SW50 as part of their suite, but looks like it's only available in that amp block, not in the reverb block.

That is asinine.

 

[mikah912]

Yeah absolutely, we all hear and want different things. But I just took another listen.... the Dynamic Hall is smooth... but it feels like at all settings there is this filtering going on that quickly kills the high frequencies, even with dampening cranked wide open and the high-cut wide open... whereas on the QC you can hear I pluck a note and the high-frequency energy decays for a long time, carrying the note into the next chord in a very pleasing way.

I think this is the defining difference that I hear. The Helix reverbs don't decay away in a musically pleasing way for me. So it is probably less about smoothness, and more about clarity and musicality.

Yeah, to my ears, the trails and modulation on Dynamic Hall are way more "musical" as you put it than anything I heard on QC when I owned it. To be fair, I think I jumped ship before the Mind Hall was added, but that's just my personal experience.

I love the Fractal reverbs above all, but honestly don't record with them at home much (I use them live a ton, and also when recording with my collective). I tend to just use Helix Native for ease, and their Dynamic and "Hot" reverb types get the job done for me.

 

[mbenigni]

The Helix reverbs don't decay away in a musically pleasing way for me.

This is exactly how I felt about the amp modeling after a short while.

 

[Orvillain]

I love the Fractal reverbs above all, but honestly don't record with them at home much (I use them live a ton, and also when recording with my collective). I tend to just use Helix Native for ease, and their Dynamic and "Hot" reverb types get the job done for me.

On TNBD's last album, all my reverbs were the BigSky. Then I sold it afterwards, and bought it again a year or two later. Then I started comparing it to the Axe3, and also Meris MercuryX, and all my love for it kind of vanished. I think sometimes we just get saturated and bored by certain sounds and need to move on.

My first ever pedal was an Ernie Ball volume pedal. My second ever pedal was a Boss RV-5, and even though the RV-5 doesn't really sound "good" by modern standards, it sounds musical and it is inspiring to use. That is generally the thing I care about most.

Sold the BigSky again btw!! Won't be going back!

 

[mikah912]

This is exactly how I felt about the amp modeling after a short while.

Similar to the reverbs, the amp sims have been of varying quality for me, but I have go-tos that just get the job done when recording at home:

Lagrange, GSG - All funk/blues/edge of breakup
Matchless Ch2 - Voxy stuff
Rockerverb 100, Line 6 2203 and Voltage - Crunch/Rock
Badonk, Revv Purple, ANGL Meteor - High gain

 

[deadpool_25]

Not dissing the QC but for me there is not enough tweakability to get whatever tone I'm after, I would be limited
While I'm sure its great for tune in a patch and wow it sounds great which is great, its just not my thing

I was assuming you'd tried one to make that statement. I'm not saying you should try one--no piece of gear is for everyone--but that's a strange statement without having tried one out. It's like saying you don't like a food when you've never tried it.

Regardless, if the Fractal stuff is working well for you, keep with that. Fractal is amazing.

At this point it comes down to the details on what will be best for a given person. All these things sound great.

 

[mbenigni]

Similar to the reverbs, the amp sims have been of varying quality for me, but I have go-tos that just get the job done when recording at home:

Lagrange, GSG - All funk/blues/edge of breakup
Matchless Ch2 - Voxy stuff
Rockerverb 100, Line 6 2203 and Voltage - Crunch/Rock
Badonk, Revv Purple, ANGL Meteor - High gain

Yep, most of those were on my short list as well. :)

 

[GTR37]

I think they modeled the tube spring reverb on the Morgan SW50 as part of their suite, but looks like it's only available in that amp block, not in the reverb block.

So, not even the plugins can deliver you from that wretched "spring" reverb. Blech....

They will fix it
I think the Morgan amp one is decent so I suspect they will convert that to a block at some point

 

[mikah912]

They will fix it
I think the Morgan amp one is decent so I suspect they will convert that to a block at some point

I bank on that as much as I bank on the Singularity reverb showing up "any update now".....

 

[Orvillain]

I bank on that as much as I bank on the Singularity reverb showing up "any update now".....

It is weird right.... effects DSP doesn't have the same timeline that the amp models do. Telling me in 3 years they couldn't finish the DSP for these additional delays and reverbs?? Something is fishy there. Maybe their regular DSP guy left and all they have is some badly commented MATLAB code???

I could do a Boss Slow Gear algorithm in Max/MSP in an evening!!!

 

[mbenigni]

I bank on that as much as I bank on the Singularity reverb showing up "any update now".....

I'm not holding my breath, but I agree with GTR37 that it's a likely outcome. The conversion of the plugins for "QC compatibility" entails breaking down some of the functionality into smaller blocks already, so it would make sense for NDSP to do what he's describing.

And that's my quota of optimism for the day. :)