NDSP Quad Cortex

[MirrorProfiles]

If anything that's a knock on FAS and Line 6. Companies should be trying to push their product

legit feels like Line 6 want to distance themselves from metallurgy Surely can’t be that hard to do a few artist videos/tones/demos etc, just seems like par for the course these days? Same for Helix Native really, IMO it’s not as widely adopted as it should be - it’s mostly guitarists and Helix hardware owners that use it.

IK are probably doing a better job of marketing their stuff than Line 6 do these days. I think Fractal have never been too arsed about having a dog in the fight, they’d prefer to let the product do the talking.

 

[Mongillo19]

Or they are confident enough that their product does not need constant advertising.

I honestly don't think that's it. Fractal especially would benefit greatly from better marketing imo.

QC seems to be selling like hot cakes and while marketing absolutely helps, I still think it would sell just fine without it

 

[Mongillo19]

think Fractal have never been too arsed about having a dog in the fight, they’d prefer to let the product do the talking.

Totally agree but some might not even hear about a fractal until they go on guitar forums which we've already discussed is a small percentage.

Obviously there are various other ways to learn about fractal but it surely isn't as front and center as the competitors

 

[mikah912]

I honestly don't think that's it. Fractal especially would benefit greatly from better marketing imo.

QC seems to be selling like hot cakes and while marketing absolutely helps, I still think it would sell just fine without it

Fractal's direct sales model with limited batches of inventory in and out of stock drives this decision too.

It's an enthusiast product, not a mass market one ideally paired with animated videos and dubstep backgrounds that have nothing to do with the product. I'm pretty sure Cliff keeps demand riiiiiiiiight about where their small operation can handle it.

 

[Stone]

Marketing costs a hell of lot, isn't better to spend that on Engineers, research and development
think about how much NDSP must have spent in the last 3 years on Marketing alone
All the promises and Debacles the Unit has faced could have been addressed sooner if more money was poured in hiring better Engineers
Just my thoughts is all

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Totally agree but some might not even hear about a fractal until they go on guitar forums which we've already discussed is a small percentage.

Obviously there are various other ways to learn about fractal but it surely isn't as front and center as the competitors

100%. Neural sort of opened up a new market for people who have no interest in buying a HW modeller, or previously weren’t on board with digital. Or if they were, they have a preference (rightly or wrongly) for Kemper/capture style approaches.

Neural undoubtedly used the success of their plugins to shift HW units. IK are basically doing this with ToneX too, with seemingly good success.

Not doing that kind of marketing (or pushing the plugins forward) is just leaving money on the table.

Again, with Fractal, I can sort of see why they might not want to rapidly inflate their userbase. I think they are more malleable and can work comfortably with a smaller number of users to look after. Line 6 on the other hand have all the means to attract as many new users as they want.

 

[GTR37]

I honestly don't think that's it. Fractal especially would benefit greatly from better marketing imo.

QC seems to be selling like hot cakes and while marketing absolutely helps, I still think it would sell just fine without it

Having the supply chain helps them quite a bit same as line6 , Kemper
When they first came out and were setting up their dealer network I thought that was one of the best marketing decisions they made
I mean you can try it out in your home for 30 days
You can finance it
You can get support or exchange from the local retailer

No waitlist when new products are announced

 

[GTR37]

legit feels like Line 6 want to distance themselves from metallurgy Surely can’t be that hard to do a few artist videos/tones/demos etc, just seems like par for the course these days? Same for Helix Native really, IMO it’s not as widely adopted as it should be - it’s mostly guitarists and Helix hardware owners that use it.

IK are probably doing a better job of marketing their stuff than Line 6 do these days. I think Fractal have never been too arsed about having a dog in the fight, they’d prefer to let the product do the talking.

I think they will have a second plug-in suite in the series honestly more geared not to metal , I mean why not
Princeton , Dripman , 2203
Carillion , Voltage , Matchless
Cartographer
If there is one thing line6 loves to you is reuse things in a different format

 

[Jynx]

That’s actually a pretty impressive chain w 3 amps a cab , verb , comp , 2 delays
2 Pitch ,drive , gate , EQ
Chorus

How much cpu load is that ?

54%

 

[Jynx]

Stacking doublers is fun!

 

[GTR37]

54%

That’s a lot of stuff for just over half

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think they will have a second plug-in suite in the series honestly more geared not to metal , I mean why not
Princeton , Dripman , 2203
Carillion , Voltage , Matchless
Cartographer
If there is one thing line6 loves to you is reuse things in a different format

I really hope they have another stab at these plugin suites and give it a proper go.

 

[Jarick]

Honestly why would Line 6 chase that down? They already have Native which has everything and is far more compatible with current updates. Guessing metallurgy was more of a proof of concept and since nobody talks about it they probably won’t pursue.

 

[BenIfin]

I don't think L6 or Kemper or Boss are having any trouble shipping a boat-load of products ... there's a lot of reasons for this.

You can [almost literally] walk into any "real store" anywhere in the world and get your hands on and try out a Helix or Boss and even a Kemper .. for online stores, they are everywhere too.

For a whole lot of other reasons, Fractal aren't interested in the whole "make-wholesale-retail-sell" game.

Neural has some retail presence, but very limited - nothing anywhere near what L6, Boss or Kemper do.

Whilst I may have previously mentioned that I hate NDSP as a company ... their marketing is very, very good ...... flash imagery, massive Y/T endorsee presence and written-copy-text-and-videos that live ever so delicately on the bleeding edge of "promise vs reality" ..... and they choose and parse their words sooooo carefully and in such a nuanced and vague way that they are almost never boxed into a corner by what they have claimed.

On a personal note, I've nothing at all against the QC itself ...... to me however, it has several current dealbreakers ... no inbuilt IEC Power Supply ...... the need for anything other than a full system backup to be cloud based ..... and the need to pay $$ to get what I presume *they* think are "their best most accurate algorithms / models".

Unfortunately, I cant see any of these changing any time soon, if ever.

On a positive note ... they do have sales once or twice a year when their plugs are 1/2 price which is good ..... why they don't offer QC owners the right to buy plugs at any time 1/2 price given they have forked out big $$ to buy their hardware, has always struck me as unnecessarily greedy and even worse, short-sighted.

But hey .. its their show.

Ben

 

[BenIfin]

I really hope they have another stab at these plugin suites and give it a proper go.

Everything I have read or heard directly from Ben and DI and others from L6 is that if they Model Amp X or EFX Y .. and they think its their "best" .... its going into the Full Helix, LT, XL and Stomp ...... and Native.

I don't think the people at L6 have any desire to make people pay for their "best models" or "unique extra models" ... ... you buy a Helix variant and you get all of their-best .. for free ... if they get their hands on Jesus's Serial 0001 Dumble and model it, you're going to get it for free.

In terms of plugin suites, Native gives you a virtual full Helix with all the exact same algorithms and quality ... and for big chunks of the year they run big specials on it to ..... everything in Metallurgy etc.... is already in Native.

Ben

 

[Mongillo19]

and the need to pay $$ to get what I presume *they* think are "their best most accurate algorithms / models".

Not sure why you think this? I don't think it's ever been pushed that the plugins are the more accurate models. If anything I'm sure they use the same technique for both plugins and QC models.

If you are again referring to their motto, I think you are reading way too much into it

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Everything I have read or heard directly from Ben and DI and others from L6 is that if they Model Amp X or EFX Y .. and they think its their "best" .... its going into the Full Helix, LT, XL and Stomp ...... and Native.

I don't think the people at L6 have any desire to make people pay for their "best models" or "unique extra models" ... ... you buy a Helix variant and you get all of their-best .. for free ... if they get their hands on Jesus's Serial 0001 Dumble and model it, you're going to get it for free.

In terms of plugin suites, Native gives you a virtual full Helix with all the exact same algorithms and quality ... and for big chunks of the year they run big specials on it to ..... everything in Metallurgy etc.... is already in Native.

Ben

Yeah, this isn't really understanding my gripe with Metallurgy. Check my other posts about it as I've bored everyone to death over it a few times. They sound great but the presentation of the products can be improved. Just because the same sounds are available in HX Native and Metallurgy, it doesn't mean that each product doesn't have its own uses. I own HX Native and all the Metallurgy suites, they are not intended to be the same thing dressed in different ways.

 

[Jarick]

Just thought I'd compare again:
View attachment 25855

View attachment 25854


BE is in the "mid gain" structure position, C45 off, vintage voicing. Just sort of eyeballed settings and that alone was pretty damn close.

Played around a bit this morning and I can kind of get them closer, although Plini still has a bit more mid push and a lot less gain.

Are you comparing the real amp to Plini or a model/plugin?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Played around a bit this morning and I can kind of get them closer, although Plini still has a bit more mid push and a lot less gain.

Are you comparing the real amp to Plini or a model/plugin?

Real amp, its the one (and settings) in the photo. I've compared the amp and Plini numerous times, and also against other plugins and its always matched very closely with no trouble at all. The bright switch is the only notable difference IME. I don't know how NDSP have implemented input gain levels for PCOM sims in the QC but could that be a factor?

There is a switch on the amp that affects the overall gain level. To the right is the highest gain, to the left is a medium setting, and in the middle is lowest gain. Plini matches closest to the left position that is "medium" gain. Most models usually use the highest gain mode and then you can use the input control to get the other tones (its close enough). Does the QC model have a switch for gain structure? if no, then youll need to lower the level going into the model to match Plini.

I haven't used the QC model for more than a few seconds, but if there is a difference, itll either be down to the switches available (I'm not sure which ones they included, but for instance Helix Native and Fractal only have some of them) or down to the load used. BE100 seems to be one of those amps that takes kindly to modelling - Plini, Fractal and Helix have always served me well for that sound.

I did these videos a while ago showing Plini vs BE100 and placater:

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I haven't checked exactly, but I'm pretty certain ALL of the Gojira and Plini cabs have been in the QC since day one. Easiest way for NDSP to load up the QC inventory is to use the stuff they already have, so theres a lot of cross pollination with the plugins.

If there is a difference between the Fender Twin's, EVH 5150 EL34 100W and BE100 models I can't imagine its huge. Guessing they were the first PCOM plugins as the bulk of the work was either done or easy to do. I really think its a bit of waste of time going for Gojira or Plini if you are trying to "expand" the QC. If you want the plugin version of those amps to run on your computer, then I'd say there is value.