NDSP Quad Cortex

Someone recently told me "as long as we keep it real"....

In that spirit, it's pretty nuts how the original FM3 introduction and then roll out doesn't get brought up here when folks are in the mood to shit on companies for 'how NOT to do it' in regard to bringing a new hotshot product to market.

I know the field is tilted here but let's at least be honest with critiques - none of these brands are even close to 10s if you really think about it.
 
Nueral is starting to really piss me off. And it's like they are trying.. They send email upon email about new products but fucking nothing I can incorporate into my QC..
 
BenIfin said:
There are innumerable things that do, and have done my head in about NDSP the company ..... but one [of the many] things they have never addressed or commented on is:-

(a) => are the amps and efx that are in the QC and that will come to the QC for free [ not-X based ] "algorithmically perfect" (?)

or

(b) => are the amps and efx Plugins [X-based] that you can buy for the QC "algorithmically perfect" (?)

and

(c) => how the f%ck do they decide if an Amp is going to come to the QC for free -or- if its going to be a Plugin and therefore eventually a paid for QC-X plugin if you want it ... and again ... are they both/all "algorithmically perfect" (?)

F%ck me, but NDSP are a terrible sh$t-on-their-customers company !

Minor rant over.

Ben
Click to expand...
Out of all the legitimate things to dump on NDSP this is a weird one/not really that bad of a concept at all.

A/B = Marketing talk... what does "Algorithmically perfect" mean? Their own algorithms compile successfully/perfectly? It's like saying this apple is 100% an apple. It just sounds like they've refined the capturing process over time and plugins/qc only amps are using the same techniques. Amplitube did this over time under the hood, and so has tons of other software. As far as I can tell "todays" NDSP captures will be the same no matter what amp theyre capturing.

C = Plugin line will probably continue as it always has been and I guess the QC amp dev will also continue like it has been for the past few years. I guess you can look at the history of amps coming to the QC and decide if thats the kind of trajectory you want to be on. I don't think there's some sinister lets purposefully split the market on amps only coming to plugins so people spend money. Amps like the SLO-X already exist as a QC amp... Gojira-X is 3 x 5150iii channels which also already exist as amps, tons of overlap already.
 
BenIfin said:
^^ Yep .... no argument there ... always happy to point out their "full of sh$tness" :)
Click to expand...
I had a bit of rage with them to , hell I owned the product , I was one of those guys that was on the first run got it 2 weeks after launch.
I think there was like 2 or 3 delays 2 verbs , its was very sparse compared to the stuff in there now and the stuff that was promised that disappeared at the 11th hour
But as bad as their marketing talk is , they Shipped My QC Air from Finland in 2 days, charged no extra and actually pre paid all the duties and taxes, so I cannot at all complain about their actual service , the Packaging as well was incredibly done , I know it the little details but it was not a plain cardboard box by any stretch much more like Apple.

The tones I got back then were good, I had it sitting right beside a Fractal FM3 ( this was prior Cygnusx2 or whatever) I compared them and I will go on record saying to my ears and fingers at the time the Freidman HBE in particular , sounded better and felt better to play than the FM3 model, the SLO /Recto /VH4 were subpar but that Freidman HBE still haunts me , The Neural had a bounce in the low end but was still super tight and on the top end leads just sang and if was easy to get it to go into natural harmonic feedback,
in fact that was the very first thing I noticed in the pre release video it was in the Tom Quayle video , he was effortlessly getting it to feedback naturally playing at whisper volumes

Fast fwd to now , the Axe has come a long way in 3 years and I can easily get that harmonic stuff , I also like the effects .
But as much as Neural has said some dumb thing , the Core sounds are actually

- really good
- inspiring fun to play
- and it overall fun and easy to use

So at this point I don't want the big unit but if the rumoured mini comes our this year , I would definitely buy one and give it another chance because although the pre order was a bit of a shitshow my experience with the sounds was pretty good .

Also I don't have to like Doug , he is not coming over for drinks and dinner , we don't have to be friends for me to like his product .
If it works it works and I certainly would not boycott a product I enjoy because some of the company behave like buffoons
 
BenIfin said:
Oh ... and here's a 3 year old kool-aid cure ... just watch this short video and you tell me/us where the numerous random cut points are where the NDSP Gojira Plugin starts and stops and where the Helix Badonk starts and stop ..... b.t.w .... hint ..... you wont be able to.

C'mon QC and NDSP Plugin users ... this should be a no-brainer for you as your hardware and software is "algorithmically perfect" !

Click to expand...


Sure, I can't hear the difference on this recording, but, at the same time, I feel he has cheated here some where. Like why am I hearing double tracked guitars on a video where we'resupposed to be trying to listen out for differences? How much effort did he have to put in on the Helix to get it to sound like that?

And why is he using a third-party IR and not the in-built ones for each? What is it you think he's not showing us there?

Sure, he says he's trying to level the playing field but having to go out and buy extra IRs on top of everything else was one of my major strikes against Helix.

I had to chuckle in the video where he points out the disparity but then hand-waves it away saying that that's what IRs are for.

I've used Helix and NDSP and NDSP is definitely better. More full and realistic sounding when played in person (Fractal too that one time I got to play it). In fact the reason I never gelled with Helix is because I could never get it to sound as good as I'd like and when I asked people for advice they would recommend buying third-party IRs and loads of extra tricks you had to do when all I wanted to do is hop on and play. The whole thing was just a headache and I was happy to get rid of it.

I don't even use third-party IRs on the Quad Cortex , and I have loads loaded on there from when I had a Helix device but the in-house ones are just better, and I have the opposite experience where I find it hard to make it sound bad.

A video can't show you things like user experience, feel, ease of use, and in-person sound as opposed to a recording where you're not in control of the variables.


My tier list of what I've tried, just in terms of raw sound, is this.

NDSP/Fractal (haven't played Fractal enough to place it properly so I'm just giving it equal billing).

ML Labs Amped series.

Helix.

Amplitube.





BiasFX
 
Achilles said:
Someone recently told me "as long as we keep it real"....

In that spirit, it's pretty nuts how the original FM3 introduction and then roll out doesn't get brought up here when folks are in the mood to shit on companies for 'how NOT to do it' in regard to bringing a new hotshot product to market.

I know the field is tilted here but let's at least be honest with critiques - none of these brands are even close to 10s if you really think about it.
Click to expand...
People tend to forget quickly when the issue goes away, and remember the product as it is right now.

FM3 is fair game though. No headphone jack on early units is an weird omission for a product like this, and the USB issues plagued the unit until the end of the year from release. Even when I bought mine I had plenty of situations where it would start with garbled audio or a non-working footswitch that got resolved by restarting the unit, and then got properly resolved in some fw update. I managed to make the Axe-Fx 3 crash on the first week I owned it.

But these are complex software/hardware products developed by small teams, so what really matters is if the company does something about it.
 
Jynx said:
And why is he using a third-party IR and not the in-built ones for each? What is it you think he's not showing us there?
Click to expand...
Cab sims are a big part of the sound already. Minimizing variables is how you make a proper comparison. So using a 3rd party IR makes total sense here.

Jynx said:
Sure, he says he's trying to level the playing field but having to go out and buy extra IRs on top of everything else was one of my major strikes against Helix.
Click to expand...
You absolutely do not need to do so, not after the stock cab update. I think you can get great sounds out of those, but it's also going to require some personal work compared to loading a 3rd party IR where someone has already done the work for you.

Jynx said:
I've used Helix and NDSP and NDSP is definitely better. More full and realistic sounding when played in person (Fractal too that one time I got to play it). In fact the reason I never gelled with Helix is because I could never get it to sound as good as I'd like and when I asked people for advice they would recommend buying third-party IRs and loads of extra tricks you had to do when all I wanted to do is hop on and play. The whole thing was just a headache and I was happy to get rid of it.
Click to expand...
It's been several years, but when I had the FM3, Helix and QC at the same time, I felt I could dial all of them to sound pretty close for the same or similar amp model. QC amp models were the most hit and miss or needed the weirdest settings to get the same tone for some models.

I don't find that Helix needs any weird tricks to get it to sound good. Like with Fractal, I find I spend most of my time getting the cab sims right. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jynx said:
A video can't show you things like user experience, feel, ease of use, and in-person sound as opposed to a recording where you're not in control of the variables.
Click to expand...

User experience and ease of use are pretty easy to show in a video. Even though it's often hard to find actual content of the onboard UI operation because overlaying a computer editor is so much easier to do.

I haven't found any modeler to do anything in YT videos that I can't get out of the unit myself. Obviously some people are way better players than me.
 
laxu said:
You absolutely do not need to do so, not after the stock cab update. I think you can get great sounds out of those, but it's also going to require some personal work compared to loading a 3rd party IR where someone has already done the work for you.
Click to expand...

I had it before the update but this video was made before the update as well I think so the point stands.

laxu said:
It's been several years, but when I had the FM3, Helix and QC at the same time, I felt I could dial all of them to sound pretty close for the same or similar amp model. QC amp models were the most hit and miss or needed the weirdest settings to get the same tone for some models.
Click to expand...

Just going to have to agree to disagree here. I found the Helix stuff 'fake' sounding, digital, 'fizzy' is the word I think people use, and it sounded more fake the harder you pushed it. NDSP stuff just sounds closer to how things actually sound to me.

Even on those videos that guy here does where he does comparisons between Helix, QC, Fractal, and the real amp, I find it very hard to distinguish between the latter three and my hit rate is no better than guesses, but I have a pretty good success rate of at least picking out the Helix.

And I don't even have 'golden ears' or anything like that.
 
Achilles said:
Someone recently told me "as long as we keep it real"....

In that spirit, it's pretty nuts how the original FM3 introduction and then roll out doesn't get brought up here when folks are in the mood to shit on companies for 'how NOT to do it' in regard to bringing a new hotshot product to market.

I know the field is tilted here but let's at least be honest with critiques - none of these brands are even close to 10s if you really think about it.
Click to expand...

Holy fucking Camp Survivor, dude.

Grab a calendar and mark down when Fractal announced the FM3 and when the issue was resolved.

Now do the same thing for NDSP and the QC.

For good measure, throw in all the communication and marketing you want surrounding both products and how those "kept it real"
 
laxu said:
Cab sims are a big part of the sound already. Minimizing variables is how you make a proper comparison. So using a 3rd party IR makes total sense here.


You absolutely do not need to do so, not after the stock cab update. I think you can get great sounds out of those, but it's also going to require some personal work compared to loading a 3rd party IR where someone has already done the work for you.


It's been several years, but when I had the FM3, Helix and QC at the same time, I felt I could dial all of them to sound pretty close for the same or similar amp model. QC amp models were the most hit and miss or needed the weirdest settings to get the same tone for some models.

I don't find that Helix needs any weird tricks to get it to sound good. Like with Fractal, I find I spend most of my time getting the cab sims right. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



User experience and ease of use are pretty easy to show in a video. Even though it's often hard to find actual content of the onboard UI operation because overlaying a computer editor is so much easier to do.

I haven't found any modeler to do anything in YT videos that I can't get out of the unit myself. Obviously some people are way better players than me.
Click to expand...

Jynx said:
I had it before the update but this video was made before the update as well I think so the point stands.



Just going to have to agree to disagree here. I found the Helix stuff 'fake' sounding, digital, 'fizzy' is the word I think people use, and it sounded more fake the harder you pushed it. NDSP stuff just sounds closer to how things actually sound to me.

Even on those videos that guy here does where he does comparisons between Helix, QC, Fractal, and the real amp, I find it very hard to distinguish between the latter three and my hit rate is no better than guesses, but I have a pretty good success rate of at least picking out the Helix.

And I don't even have 'golden ears' or anything like that.
Click to expand...

I think Laxu has covered it pretty well. I also disagree with your reasoning and your comments about Helix ..... however you clearly prefer the sound of the QC ..... so all power to you ... thats all that matters :)

Ben
 
Achilles said:
Someone recently told me "as long as we keep it real"....

In that spirit, it's pretty nuts how the original FM3 introduction and then roll out doesn't get brought up here when folks are in the mood to shit on companies for 'how NOT to do it' in regard to bringing a new hotshot product to market.

I know the field is tilted here but let's at least be honest with critiques - none of these brands are even close to 10s if you really think about it.
Click to expand...

Lets actually be real, sensible and objective here ...... if (?) you are trying to compare the FM3 no headphone jack release and how it was handled to the QC from its pre-Day 1 until today ..... frankly this is like saying a mouse is no different to an elephant ... sure they both have 4 legs ......but ..... you get the gist.

Ben
 
Someone on the Discord observed that the block they were using in the demo has 7 oscillator dials where as the one in Rabea only has 4. And this was seen as evidence that it's coming on 3.0.

So I decided to piss on that parade by pointing out that maybe the updated version of Rabea X will have 7 and we could still be looking at a block from his plugin coming down the line rather than a general block on 3.0.0
 
Mongillo19 said:
So 3.0.0 ammiright 🤣

I'm starting to think it will have a synth block tossed in
Click to expand...
I think they are possibly way farther along than they are letting on
Someone asked in YouTube
I want to use my Nolly X presets in QC

And NDSP reply was “that’s tin the next big update , we are very close
I always take what they say with a grain of salt but if
Plini and Gojira was working and in Beta back last October
That like 8 months ago
 
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