NDSP Quad Cortex

Difference being (for me) is I will 1000% use dual detune vs a proprietary cab block that I may or may not need to delve into.
I doubt that they’d leave out effects like that - they’d sell way more units that are decked out from the off, and would make more money than nickel and diming the odd plugin.

The plugin versions are more to appease the people crying about porting their presets. I’m sure they’ll have similar effects with slightly different parameters as “stock” fx.
But from a hardware owner's perspective, it's tough to see what Line 6 has done - adding in the Catalyst hardware amps, adding in the new models sold as part of the "Metallurgy" suite - and wonder why Neural couldn't arrive at a similar accommodation.
To their credit, they're adding a few "generic" versions of some of the plugin-only models. But it's not enough, nor is it comparable.
Well yeah - Line 6 doesn’t give Helix owners the Metallurgy stuff for free. You could in theory buy a helix, and buy Metallurgy and end up with something similar. Are the presets transferable between Metallurgy and Helix?

I think if NDSP was selling DLC that was ONLY available to unlock features in the QC and you had no plugin counterpart, that would be worse. But that’s not really what is going on here at all and it often gets presented that the extra amps are only for expanding the QC.

As a plugin user, i’m pretty happy to get updates across the board - in turn it should mean development is faster and easier across the board, no matter the platform. They probably didn’t design the QC to be a unified experience with the plugins but they’ve kind of ended up there. I couldn’t really give a toss about the HW side of things but if it allows them to work more efficiently and offer better products then it’s probably for the best to do it this way.
 
The plugins are self contained items that have their own value propositions, true. Either you need or want to use a plugin and you like what’s in it, or you don’t. Pay or walk.

But for QC owners it presents an entirely different situation. On the 31st it represents paid DLC. Sure nobody is being forced to buy them, and certainly there is overlap in the tones, but one has to be absolutely naive to think Neural will not view this, in part, as a revenue stream for QC only users, and one has to be absolutely naive to think they are not going to see a notable uptick in plugin sales from QC owners when 3.0 drops and they get a single delay added after a year wait.

We’re all adults here, let’s not pretend this will be anything other than Neural strategically controlling which funnel they drop content down, to maximize revenue, while trying to keep it as minimally offensive as they can possibly get away with.
 
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The plugins are self contained items that have their own value propositions, true. Either you need or want to use a plugin and you like what’s in it, or you don’t. Pay or walk.

But for QC owners it presents an entirely different situation. On the 31st it represents paid DLC. Sure nobody is being forced to buy them, and certainly there is overlap in the tones, but one has to be absolutely naive to think Neural will not view this, in part, as a revenue stream for QC only users, and one has to be absolutely naive to think they are not going to see a notable uptick in plugin sales from QC owners when 3.0 drops and they get a single delay added after a year wait.

We’re all adults here, let’s not pretend this will be anything other than Neural controlling which funnel they drop content down, while juggling the desire to maximize revenue while keeping it as minimally offensive as they can get away with.
 
. They're not the same algorithms anymore.
A/ thats a big assumption, and most likely wrong. I find it very likely that if plugins and QC were developed by different teams, the architecture is different. In my mind it’s most likely that they had to rework the architecture to match the QC…makes perfect sense. That does not mean the results are different…or the algorithm. You can build a calculator in a lot of ways…and still it gives 4 as a result of 2+2
B/ The fact that they rebuild the plugins to fit the QC…that itself means that they become portable, and that the plugins will be the same on the QC…else they would have build a copy close enough in the QC…that’s not what they did. Ironically here it gets explained as “you see…they are not the same”…which is silly….cause this is what’s needed to always make them the same…the royal method..not the quick and dirty,

So it seems to me they are doing this the right way…allign architectures so in the long run..when you build a new plugin…its ready for the QC on day 1. I’d expect the current to be ported…maybe there is even a plugin under construction that will release without X.
When they start new plugins, and those are not X from day one…only then it wouldn’t make sense no longer.
 
Please make me pay for more content sir

scared homer simpson GIF
 
The plugins are self contained items that have their own value propositions, true. Either you need or want to use a plugin and you like what’s in it, or you don’t. Pay or walk.

But for QC owners it presents an entirely different situation. On the 31st it represents paid DLC. Sure nobody is being forced to buy them, and certainly there is overlap in the tones, but one has to be absolutely naive to think Neural will not view this, in part, as a revenue stream for QC only users, and one has to be absolutely naive to think they are not going to see a notable uptick in plugin sales from QC owners when 3.0 drops and they get a single delay added after a year wait.

We’re all adults here, let’s not pretend this will be anything other than Neural strategically controlling which funnel they drop content down, to maximize revenue, while keeping it as minimally offensive as they can possibly get away with.
Is it really different to Line 6 offering plugin versions of Helix? its another revenue stream. The options they have are:

- rerelease the exact same models across all formats and charge for them, like Line 6 with Helix and Metallurgy
- offer additional models, so you end up with all the stock stuff and more when you’ve spent more money.

So the difference is with Line 6, you spend extra money and get stuff you already have. With NDSP, you get something you don’t already have.

I see NDSP as a plugin company first, and I can’t really see anything essential being paywalled. The nerdy Petrucci/Rabbea/Plini etc fans would probably spend that money regardless, and probably already have anyway.

As far as value proposition goes, buying a QC+NDSP plugins gives way better value than what you get from Dynacabs, Metallurgy, or ToneX expansion packs.

But yeah, 99% of peoples issues go away if you consider the plugins as a seperate product first and that QC support is an added bonus that allows you to carry your presets over without having to rebuild them with approximate gear (which is hardly that much of a deal either).

I don’t own a QC and don’t see myself buying one, but I do see myself buying basically everything NDSP continue to release as plugins. If one day I found a need for a QC, then all my plugins would (presumably by then) carry over. It’s unlikely plugin support would be the thing that makes me want to buy a QC, but if I get more stuff added without spending more money, then cool.
 
We’re all adults here, let’s not pretend this will be anything other than Neural strategically controlling which funnel they drop content down, to maximize revenue, while keeping it as minimally offensive as they can possibly get away with.
Also no different to how Fractal offers Dyna cabs, or doesn’t offer plugins, or how IK sells their stuff.

Are Dynacabs genuinely better value than NDSP plugins (where you get comparable cab engines, fx, amps, pedals, proper plugins, standalone etc). Pound for pound, there’s no contest.

Theyre all about bringing in money and none are any better than another. The more they can get you to open your wallet, the better. And if they can do it for the exact some code (Helix/Metallurgy etc), better still. and the customer gets something out of it, they can decide if it represents good value for something they want, or not. If they charged to allow you to use more blocks, or for basic features then it’s a different story.
 
But yeah, 99% of peoples issues go away if you consider the plugins as a seperate product first and that QC support is an added bonus

That sounds good in theory, until your modeling company doesn’t update your modeler because they spent an entire year making a couple plugins compatible.

Mben only owns the QC, tell him with a straight face that plugins are a separate product. :ROFLMAO:


As far as value proposition goes, buying a QC+NDSP plugins gives way better value than what you get from Dynacabs, Metallurgy, or ToneX expansion packs.

If the standard is now IK Multimedia, we’re all fucked. Fractal offering some peripheral IR pack(s) to an otherwise aggressively developed, mature and feature complete product, is quite the fucking stretch to Neurals tangled web with QC & Plug development.
 
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Also no different to how Fractal offers Dyna cabs, or doesn’t offer plugins, or how IK sells their stuff.

Are Dynacabs genuinely better value than NDSP plugins (where you get comparable cab engines, fx, amps, pedals, proper plugins, standalone etc). Pound for pound, there’s no contest.

Theyre all about bringing in money and none are any better than another. The more they can get you to open your wallet, the better. And if they can do it for the exact some code (Helix/Metallurgy etc), better still. and the customer gets something out of it, they can decide if it represents good value for something they want, or not. If they charged to allow you to use more blocks, or for basic features then it’s a different story.

I guess I would consider synth blocks, usable spring reverb, and so forth to be "basic features" in 2024.

As I mentioned above, the Dynacab comparison is pretty thin gruel, and Fractal is definitely not the company you want to compare to when we talk about adding in free aftermarket content value vs. paid.

I mean, NDSP could be worse (*cough* IK Multimedia *cough), but this is going to continue to be a uniquely sore spot for NDSP. In fact, they've already robbed QC ("Hey, when are you guys dropping that Tone King model you promised at launch?" to, er, pay the plugin pipeline ("A new Tone King plugin?!?! Swee.....hey, wait a minute!)
 
That sounds good in theory, until your modeling company doesn’t update your modeler because they spent a year making a couple plugins compatible.

Mben was only owns the QC, tell him with a straight face that plugins are a separate product. :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, I mean, I’m a hardcore plugin guy and I happily throw money at those. Given the time it makes me to make some NAM/ToneX/IR packs, plugin suites cost nothing by comparison and you get a much nicer user experience. For whatever BS is involved with the QC, the plugins are fantastic and I genuinely wish Line 6 and Fractal could offer me something similar (and I’m sure I’m not alone in that).

As it stands, NDSP lead the way in that part of the market and I have always considered them a plugin company first and foremost. The mistake a lot of people made was assuming they were as good at developing hardware as they are plugins.


If the standard is now IK Multimedia, we’re all fucked. Fractal offering some ancillary IR pack(s) to an otherwise aggressively developed, mature and feature complete product, is quite the fucking stretch to Neurals tangled web with QC & Plug development.
I agree that it’s not an ideal model. But as it stands, Line 6, Fractal and NDSP all offer more palatable options for expanding your options between a HW unit and software. Line 6 nailed it with HX Native, Metallurgy were a misfire that have been entirely neglected. I think it’s been well over a year since those plugins saw an update, and they were never truly perfect. I love Line 6 as a company but the Metallurgy experience is closer to a $5 Audio Assault plugin than it is what NDSP offer. And Fractal are too timid to go near plugins, so while the AxeFX is fantastic they simply won’t cater for someone who wants plugin versions.

Neural DSP offer the best plugin experience and a reasonable enough HW experience, to a lot of guys it’s going to be a good enough balance. For everything I love about the Axe FX, it’s a massive investment compared to anything else on the market and forces you to work a certain way. Line 6 and NDSP are way more flexible with how you use their products.

I’m not saying Fractal doesn’t offer value for money, but also, it’s a big investment that doesn’t completely satisfy what I’m looking for. So they have room to improve and grow, and I’d happily pay money for it as soon as it’s available (just as I paid extra wedge for Helix Native and Metallurgy). You can spend a ton on a Fractal rig and there still isn’t the option to buy the extra features you want - at least this is completely possible with Line 6, and somewhat possible with NDSP (QC Native when?).

I don’t own a QC, but I own most of the plugins so I’m fairly heavily invested in what they offer. It really feels like this topic is talked about in a way that makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is. I’d find a QC Native infinitely more exciting than plugin porting to QC. Most QC users seem to be pretty stoked to be able to use the plugins they’ve already spent money on in their QC, and I think if everything works as they expect they’ll probably be happy to spend more. If both sides are happy with that arrangement, then I’m not going to complain on their behalf.
 
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My take on the NeuralDSP plugins is that they are good...but I don't want to own more than maybe one or two of them. I feel a lot of them are very similar with tons of overlap especially in the fx department.

For QC owners it would be nice if they started selling a cheaper "QC only" license where you don't get the VST plugin, just the QC content. I don't think that will happen though.

I don't mind the idea of having to pay for extra content for a modeler...but only if the unit is quite comprehensive already. I don't think Neural is there yet, so I hope they keep adding free features as well.
 
Boy does he seem hungover or something. Never seen him so unenthusiastic before. He's so monotone. :LOL:

Still plays like a mofo though.
 
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