SD170. I've had this setup for a long time and I know it well - it works great for me.
Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk
- Thread starter laxu
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SD170. I've had this setup for a long time and I know it well - it works great for me.
AlbertA
Shredder
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The first thing I would try is add a cab block and bypass it - you should be able to control which SIC the amp issuing this way IIUC - I would start by choosing a cab that’s close to yours if there is one.
Have you tried adding some hype ?
Karl Houseknecht
Roadie
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My experience with the SD with a Helix and real cab was that I had to work hard to tame highs
I have no issues with that - it sounds perfect direct in with all EQ set at noon. I never have to touch EQ on Helix or SD170.
I've compared it to tube amps through the same cabs, and it compared very favorably with Helix. Now maybe if you're playing at very loud volumes, you may experience a difference. What speakers were you playing through?
Dropbox
www.dropbox.com
VP4 in FX loop 1+2, after the Hiwatt and a custom IR. There are no reverbs in the Helix that do this.
I realize I'm asking for all the smoke, but I wanted to see what it would sound like on Helix (My Stadium arrives Tuesday, so I'll do more stuff then) with minimal effort or blocks, so this is what I think is a good showing of Helix ambient capabilities:
I tried to match the tonality of your clip so I had to use the Poly Capo (to tune down three steps) > WhoWatt 100 model > Dynamic Plate > Cab. That's it. Almost all defaults except I cranked the Decay and raised the Damping and High Cut on Dynamic Plate to open it up and be more "heavenly".
To me...this IS Helix doing that.
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Hey that sounds sick! It's different, but still really nice.
HotRats
Shredder
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Might be that you have the global EQ on and assigned to the out but not the headphones?)
Dimiguitar
Roadie
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Don't know what the issue is, but the second one sounds much better to me.Ok, went back and played.
This problem does not reveal itself playing through headphones but it very clearly noticeable playing through a guitar cab. To put it simply - WHERE'S ALL THE HIGH END??
All those high end frequencies that give a Marshall it's core character are neutered. It's just all smothered out. Why is this the case?
The Helix Plexi sounds way better, to me, simply by virtue of the fact that critical high-end frequencies are present and accounted for - this in large part is what gives modeling its authenticity. Need to investigate more.
I'm still learning how to record etc. but I did this using my phone camera. It's basically my in-room sound of the Helix through 2 guitar cabs. Unfortunately, google photos compression is massive, and a lot of the tone is neutered from what I'm hearing in the room - but you can still get a sense.
Dropbox
The first part is Agoura Brit Plexi Jumped and the 2nd amp is Helix Brit Plexi Jumped. Amp is fully cranked - not how I typically play but that's what I happened to dial up. There's just a tiny amount of reverb - nothing else in signal chain. Hopefully you can hear what I'm hearing.
HotRats
Shredder
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Ok, went back and played.
This problem does not reveal itself playing through headphones but it very clearly noticeable playing through a guitar cab. To put it simply - WHERE'S ALL THE HIGH END??
All those high end frequencies that give a Marshall it's core character are neutered. It's just all smothered out. Why is this the case?
The Helix Plexi sounds way better, to me, simply by virtue of the fact that critical high-end frequencies are present and accounted for - this in large part is what gives modeling its authenticity. Need to investigate more.
I'm still learning how to record etc. but I did this using my phone camera. It's basically my in-room sound of the Helix through 2 guitar cabs. Unfortunately, google photos compression is massive, and a lot of the tone is neutered from what I'm hearing in the room - but you can still get a sense.
Dropbox
The first part is Agoura Brit Plexi Jumped and the 2nd amp is Helix Brit Plexi Jumped. Amp is fully cranked - not how I typically play but that's what I happened to dial up. There's just a tiny amount of reverb - nothing else in signal chain. Hopefully you can hear what I'm hearing.
I'm not with you in the room but from the recording the agoura plexi sounds "spot on" to me while the OG has an "hyped" high end.
Maybe it's me but I prefer rounder tones when playing with the band and ususally turn up the presence knob of my jubillee when I'm playing at home at lower volumes.
as a reference
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Foxmeister
Roadie
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I was going to suggest the Heliosphere too - especially when it is going into a dynamic reverb.
laxu
Rock Star
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Man, you really didn't try the unit at all if you just skipped some of the bigger new features!
Did you dial your amp sound using headphones, then plug into the real cab? Or did you dial it with the real cab from the start?
While I agree that your clip could've used more highs, it didn't sound dull or anything.
I'd try slapping an EQ block after the amp and messing with that to understand what frequencies are not getting represented.
Foxmeister
Roadie
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Steve Sterlacci did quite a good video about the comparison between the Agoura and HX models, and specifically calls out the high-end on the HX models.
The way he puts it is that this is the sort of stuff you'd be looking to dial-out in the HX models.
What is interesting though is if you are hearing what you are missing in headphones, it is obviously present and therefore being generated by the model.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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How is either of your clips lacking high end? It's possibly more than I'd ever use in both clips.
HotRats
Shredder
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I 100% agree with Sterlacci in this case and from his comparison it pretty obvious, expecialy when playing single notes, that the agoura models are more balanced, natural sounding and have more weight in the notes, while OG Helix model tend to be a bit "skinny".
A certain lack of weight has always been my main complaint with helix models.
I'm not bashing the OG Helix or anything here, I love my helix and played it live thorugh real cabs, frfr or direct to FOH for several years and with satisfaction. I stll prefer real amps though.
CakeEater
Roadie
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Absolutely, in fact @Digital Igloo , would you consider a “Helioverb”, where we can have the Heliosphere reverb with normal pre-delay and without the actual delay? And then we can save on the DSP monster that the Heliosphere is?
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I wouldn't take his word for that. Plenty of people like and want that high-end.
Karl Houseknecht
Roadie
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Or the headphones are hyping that high end and/or downplaying other frequencies that are contributing more.
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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This. You set the high end you want with the amp controls and IR, it's just preference and context dependent. If they're both equally bright but one has more hashy/unmusical noise or unpleasant resonances, then I think it's probably a positive overall. But it really depends on what it's supposed to sound like. In Sterlacci's video he's just grimacing for some reason at OG Helix because it's more bright. If he dialled the tone in first on OG helix, and then matched the Stadium settings to that, his reaction would probably be different.
These qualities are the sum of many factors so it's hard to just reduce it down to static frequency response or generic terms like fizz. There's a dynamic element to real amps that feels more alive across the frequency spectrum. And you often notice it on stereo tracked guitars - often real amps just sound a bit wider and more alive than even the best models do. I have no idea what the cause, or solution of that is. And I think it's likely a bit more complex than just "randomisation". I think OG Helix often had a fairly distinctive kind of hashy fizz that was a little bit different to real amps. It might be similar in terms of magnitude but the way it lingered just sounded a bit different to me. Stadium seems to be clearer and less hashy, but also significantly darker and with other tonal differences that I can't really make sense of (as to why it's so different).
I think we tend to lean towards warmer less harsh tones, and we also favour a more immediate response - all things that I think would be more preferable in Stadium so I absolutely understand why so many people would prefer it.
