Kemper Player - Kemper gives away Morphing for FREE

[Mongillo19]

Something Fender could learn.

Hasn't fender been constantly updating the TMP?

 

[laxu]

So what Kemper did isn't unusual. It's called price discrimination, kind of what airlines do in types of seating. The logic is to capture as many customers as possible by offering different levels to suit one's needs. The mistake they likely made is pricing it too aggressively, and then of course, changing pricing, which, while not unique, obviously irks the early adopters. Conversely, over the years, they have been quite generous in upgrading their system gratis, so I think we probably owe them a little break here, and put everything in balance. I"m pretty confident they'll ultimately do the right thing. It's still a fantastic product, and they are constantly upgrading it. Something Fender could learn...

I'd say Kemper owners don't owe them anything. The upgrades are a selling point, same as Line6 or Fractal. It builds trust and long-term viability for the products.

I do agree that the pricing was not great and "altering the deal" only like 5 months after those tier upgrades were released is going to leave a bad taste in the mouth for early adopters. Even if it makes the upgrades more enticing to people who just jump in.

 

[Sedaxel]

Hasn't fender been constantly updating the TMP?

Well, I think the TMP was excessively lacking, so they were forced to update it. There was no option.

Now, when they get to put the TMP on the same level of others, then let's see if they keep free updates. They maybe will... For the price, doing otherwise would be hard to swallow.

 

[Dominant7]

Hasn't fender been constantly updating the TMP?

If by update you mean either adding things that should have been there in the first place or fixing major errors, sure. Did they do one update that added a couple of amps? Yes.

 

[Orvillain]

If by update you mean either adding things that should have been there in the first place or fixing major errors, sure. Did they do one update that added a couple of amps? Yes.

By that logic, you could absolutely say that we're still waiting for an "accuracy" update from Kemper for roughly 12 years now. Teeeeheeeeee.

 

[OneEng]

I get that prices change subject to demand etc.... but yep. Gotta agree.

It would *probably* be *ok* (?) if the Level Packs weren't so freakin' expensive.

Sadly I think Kemper is doing this to jack-up [probably] poorer than expected sales and if that is the case, I think they will "feature-creep-down" other stuff to keep the units moving.

The Player and L1, L2 and L3 pricing structure never made sense as a new Player with all 3 Level's is just too close to the full floor unit

If it were me, I'd be pretty annoyed too

I completely agree. Kemper got WAY over their skis with the price vs. features of the Player. Their reaction has only made it worse IMO.

The levels were bound to drop in price at some point. Was a terrible idea from the start.
Wonder how many people bought the levels vs non buyers. Could be possible if they just charged $50 extra for the unit and gave all the functionality it might have yielded the same $$$ to them at the end of the day without the kerfuffle, annoyed customers and bad PR.

My advice (on the Kemper forum btw) was that the player should be priced at or below $500.00. At $700, it is simply too close to the used price of a Stage and not nearly as good.

Sadly though that seems pretty much a common business model the product/ sales world these days
Loyal customers get ignored and potential new ones get the perks
Same with cable plans at least up here in Canada
New customers get the deals for the first year at great pricing but then …

Kemper has done a very good job over the years of providing VERY good free updates. Unlike Fractal and other modelers, they have also done a VERY good job of ensuring that NOTHING changed in your old tones and that new features were just that .... NEW and ADDED, not CHANGED. For gigging musicians (especially if you do covers) this is a very big deal.

Probably the same person who thought not putting a display on the Kemper Player was a good idea. If Hotone can offer a full color touchscreen for several hundred euros less, cost or space on the form factor are not the problems.

The level system is also stupid when it's just gatekeeping features that have existed on the larger units for years.

I feel like when designing the Kemper Player, they were way too concerned about not cannibalizing the sales of the larger, more expensive Stage and Toaster/Rack.

Agree!

Here's the thing .....

If Kemper would have priced the Player at ~$500-$600, and used a color screen, and had ONLY buttons for foot switches (along with the phone app), they would have sold 100x more units. Sure, their profit margin would have gone down, but the vastly increased sales would have much more than made up for it. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Very bad product management. It's like they have never heard of economy of scale.

If they would have done this, and made it fully compatible with my Kemper Rack (with the exception of the number of FX slots of course), I would have bought it IMMEDIATELY as a throw-and-go backup and jam rig.

Well this is interesting. I just got BANNED on the Kemper Forum for voicing my displeasure with what they just did. So needless to say, I will be returning both of my Kemper setups.

That is crazy. You have every right to be pissed.

I’m not confident it was cost that drove that designchoice.
I for one would not want to trade physical knobs and/or bigger size..for a screen.
I like the concept of “as many knobs on the unit as possible”…and use an iPad/phone when you need to edit details.

Personally, I am fine with the idea of the player not having knobs. It isn't like I am going to reach down in a gig and start tweaking things .... but then, I do wonder how many are like me vs. how many are more like you.

I was kicked off the beta team a few years ago now, for merely posting that I was buying a Quad Cortex ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORUM.

Also BS.

They were always very cultish. I remember the aggro they'd engage in (I suppose I did sometimes too!) when Fractal would release antthing new; new hardware, new firmware, whatever.

They get EXTREMELY defensive about the idea that the Kemper isn't accurate. Ridiculously so. You don't see that with a lot of other people.

There's some weird thing in the water I guess.

I post on the Kemper forum regularly. I also regularly post that Kemper profiling is neither as accurate, nor as fast and easy to use as some other capture devices. No one has banned me (yet).

I have never thought that accuracy was Kemper's claim to fame though. They are accurate enough for me and many pro touring musicians. Trying to claim they are as accurate as other pedals is silly IMO. They should be claiming that they provide the best live experience IMO.

I love physical knobs as much as anybody, but I think a screen would add a helluva lot more usability to the Kemper Player.

I'm talking about nothing but a small version of the screen you find on the Stage and Toaster. Show the preset name and a few parameter values.

I think you could cram a display into the Player format or close to it if you put it above the five knobs on the bottom and put the Fx1/2 etc functions on a 2nd layer, cram the master volume in place of rig vol etc.

Shitty mockup:

View attachment 39768

Exactly! I would have ditched the knobs, but still, nice mock up. They would have sold a ton of these at $600 without the limitations. Seriously, they would have sold so many that they would have been in a completely different galaxy of revenue and profit from where they are today.

From my perspective from the last 10 years…they’ve always been trustworthy and transparent…so a general disqualification of the company is a bridge to far imo. I honestly believe they want to do it right for their customers…I don’t believe they sit at the Management table with “how we gonna rip them off today” on the agenda.

But..the way they handle this shifting of functionality, which I get from a broader perspective (having to compete with price fighters), doesn’t feel like a fair deal for people how recently upgraded to lvl II, but i can imagine it’s a though nut to crack how to make it fair for everyone (and stay in business atst)

I agree with this. They have been pretty responsive to requests ..... albeit VERY slow.... but the end result is always rock solid.

My experience on the Kemper forums has been very different. Lots of very good guys giving out advice freely. I have, on several occasions, told people to buy something other than Kemper. It isn't the best for everything. I haven't been banned for it.

I have spoke out loudly about the Player. Thought it was WAY too expensive, and that it should have had a screen (seriously?). I thought it should have come out the gate able to be a GREAT backup option for all of us who already had a full size Kemper. Would have insured a butt TON of sales right out the gate. I was respectful about my opinions, but I did strongly state I didn't understand why the Player was managed as it was.

I completely believe it was mis-managed. I also think, looking into the insides, that Kemper doesn't pay nearly enough attention to "design for manufacturing". It's like they don't have anyone that has studied product management.....

You start with "What do my customers want" and "What is the market price for this kind of product", and "What do the competitors do right and wrong".

THEN you design a product that best meets those goals.

The last thing that should have been on their minds is "how will this effect the sales of the stage"? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. If you previously sold 1000 stages a month, and now you sell 500 stages a month and 5000 Players .... do the math! The argument to spend 1K on a player vs a used stage? Can't see it (and told JCM this on the Kemper forum I believe .... and didn't get banned ).

Yes, you will lose some of the sales that were going to your lowest tier product; however, by dropping down to the ~$500.00 price range you tap into a much much larger market that you weren't getting ANY of before. Kemper could have gone and eaten HX Stomps lunch and taken a big bite out of FM3 sales as well.

In the end, they are going to end up in that price range anyway IMO. The Player is just too expensive to compete with HX Stomp. Without a screen, it doesn't stand a chance against FM3 even though it is actually more powerful in most ways.

 

[quadgear]

Kemper has done a very good job over the years of providing VERY good free updates. Unlike Fractal and other modelers, they have also done a VERY good job of ensuring that NOTHING changed in your old tones

Is that because the core profiling playback mechanism hasn't really changed. It's the same basic approach and the profile data does not change.

In the case of a modeler, if you change the model to use a better algorithm or how a parameter is interpreted or adding new parameter, it's going to be very hard to match the old sound exactly (and if it's possible, it's a lot of work).

That said, there are ways to avoid having to rebuild presets. Instead of updating the old model, keep it and add a new/improved version. I think that's what Helix does. The downside of that is you get a lot of overlap in amps that are marginally different. Also you have to change each preset to use the latest model.

 

[Orvillain]

Also BS.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

View attachment 40132

What an asshole.

 

[laxu]

View attachment 40132

That is honestly very petty. "Do not even consider trying a different product or we will kick you out!" is cult behavior. What is this, Kemper's Witnesses?

 

[Lysander]

View attachment 40132

Holy living shit, that's... unprofessional.

 

[HomespunEffects]

That is honestly very petty. "Do not even consider trying a different product or we will kick you out!" is cult behavior. What is this, Kemper's Witnesses?

I hope they don’t come knocking at my door.

I was almost going to try a Kemper back when they introduced the liquid profile thing. I didn’t realize they demanded absolute dedication.

All they had to do was give a few profiles to those that paid for the upgrade in the past.

 

[JCW308]

I hope they don’t come knocking at my door.

I was almost going to try a Kemper back when they introduced the liquid profile thing. I didn’t realize they demanded absolute dedication.

All they had to do was give a few profiles to those that paid for the upgrade in the past.

He was on the beta team, not a normal customer.

 

[laxu]

I don't know much about paid upgrades, but I have to say Kemper does an awesome job on the hardware side, the original Profiler released in 2011-ish (?) is still the same one being used today. That's incredible for a digital company. How many versions have the other companies gone through since then? Heck, even amp companies discontinue/revamp stuff more regularly than them.

It's great for those who bought their Kemper when it released (2013 I think?), and shows Kemper got a lot of things right when it's still well liked today.

But the flipside is that as someone who doesn't own a Kemper, I don't want to buy any Kemper product because I know it's so old hardware. The user interfaces etc haven't kept up with progress, and other devices have surpassed them in sound and accuracy.

The capture game is already starting to be dominated by much cheaper products. It's only a matter of time before IK, Hotone, Mooer or maybe Nux nails it to the point that buying Kemper doesn't make much sense unless they evolve their hardware.

 

[HomespunEffects]

He was on the beta team, not a normal customer.

Yeah. I’m not sure that matters to me though. It’s a matter of degrees and not a lot of them.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Oh shoot I was going to edit my post and ended up deleting it

This is why I stick with amps lol

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Anyway, reposting it:


I don't know much about paid upgrades, but I have to say Kemper does an awesome job on the hardware side, the original Profiler released in 2011-ish (?) is still the same one being used today. That's incredible for a digital company. How many versions have the other companies gone through since then? Heck, even amp companies discontinue/revamp stuff more regularly than them.

 

[Orvillain]

I don't appreciate being accused of spreading BS, when everything I say is factual.

 

[Lysander]

He was on the beta team, not a normal customer.

I'm not sure how that would be relevant.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I'm not sure how that would be relevant.

Being a beta tester is not a right associated with a purchase. Its a privilege companies extended to some of their users.
Beta testers get to see/hear products before they're out. I don't think it's unreasonable for a company to expect their beta testers not to be publicly praising/associating with competitors.