Stick with Mac or move to Windows?

[djd100]

How much is your Windows system worth after 5 years? Again, people conveniently ignore that the “more expensive” Apple hardware actually has resale value. windows hardware? Not so much.

Also, just priced out a Thinkpad. The same or more than I paid for my MacBook Air. Unless you get a Walmart pile of shit, Mac’s aren’t that much more, if at all.

Computers are not good investments LOL!

They do their jobs until they can't, and then they're replaced, and in my case always reinforced with Pro Tools or UA DSP.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So, who needs updates, our show and studio computers don't spend much time on the web, and have never had a problem in 30 years?

Most people need updates as they only use one computer.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Support goes back to 2018 right now.

All usually fine, but still, Apple renders their machines artificially obsolete left and right, most often there's zero technical reasons behind it.
So yes, my old Mac Pro is from 2010 and you may call it outdated (which it actually really isn't, multithread performance is still most excellent). But yet, I can run the most up to date Windows version or the most up to date Linux versions on it without any issues. And it's still a smoking machine. But I can't run any more or less recent macOS version on it anymore since years already. I could've stretched OS support by patching some things, but that'd be no real support, more to the opposite.
And if I wanted to sell the thing, I'd possibly get €250 for it. For a computer that, brand new, was around 4k. That's a joke. And it's only worth that little because of the lack of support.

 

[paisleywookiee]

So, who needs updates, our show and studio computers don't spend much time on the web, and have never had a problem in 30 years?

They're isolated for the tasks they do.

Our admin machines haven't had problems either, but they do get their updates etc as they spend their time on the web.

Wait, first Apple obsoletes stuff, but now “who needs updates on a studio computer”? Which is it? I just swapped a drive for a friend’s 2012 Mac Mini. He loves it, and is now back to work on his record. Doesn’t sound obsolete to me.

Computers are not good investments LOL!

They do their jobs until they can't, and then they're replaced, and in my case always reinforced with Pro Tools or UA DSP.

They’re not good investments, but if you ignore resale value, you’re dumb.

All usually fine, but still, Apple renders their machines artificially obsolete left and right, most often there's zero technical reasons behind it.
So yes, my old Mac Pro is from 2010 and you may call it outdated (which it actually really isn't, multithread performance is still most excellent). But yet, I can run the most up to date Windows version or the most up to date Linux versions on it without any issues. And it's still a smoking machine. But I can't run any more or less recent macOS version on it anymore since years already. I could've stretched OS support by patching some things, but that'd be no real support, more to the opposite.
And if I wanted to sell the thing, I'd possibly get €250 for it. For a computer that, brand new, was around 4k. That's a joke. And it's only worth that little because of the lack of support.

Yeah that’s why I would have (and do) sold at year five or six. Like I have said several times already.

And that 2010 Mac Pro isn’t going to run Windows 11 well, dude. I’ve got HP Z series here that are ten years newer that don’t run it well.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yeah that’s why I would have (and do) sold at year five or six. Like I have said several times already.

And as said, this isn't as easy anymore. Prices for used Macs are going down.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Btw, Apple’s update cycle and obsolescence issue goes back more than 25 years. If you’ve not figured it out by now, and it bothers you, the problem isn’t Apple.
I’m not saying I love that factor either, but Jesus Christ. Either learn how to use eBay/FB Marketplace/Swappa and sell the machine at a decent price after five years, or buy a Windows machine and enjoy that.

 

[paisleywookiee]

And as said, this isn't as easy anymore. Prices for used Macs are going down.

No they aren’t, and yes it is easy.

 

[paisleywookiee]

The five year old Z series under my desk is now going for a fifth of what it cost. The five year old EliteBook that cost $2000 now is going for $250. They both run Windows 11 mediocre to shit (they do run Linux well though). My five year old Mini still runs the current version of MacOS, fast as hell.
Enjoy Windows, or enjoy bitching about Apple, I don’t really care.

 

[Sascha Franck]

No they aren’t, and yes it is easy.

Over here, they are.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Over here, they are.

Well I guess there’s one positive thing about the US. Everything else sucks, but we’ve got better Mac resale.

 

[djd100]

Wait, first Apple obsoletes stuff, but now “who needs updates on a studio computer”? Which is it? I just swapped a drive for a friend’s 2012 Mac Mini. He loves it, and is now back to work on his record. Doesn’t sound obsolete to me.

They’re not good investments, but if you ignore resale value, you’re dumb.

Yeah that’s why I would have (and do) sold at year five or six. Like I have said several times already.

And that 2010 Mac Pro isn’t going to run Windows 11 well, dude. I’ve got HP Z series here that are ten years newer that don’t run it well.

You missed the part where our studio computers always utilize Pro Tools and/or UA DSP, so we don't need the latest bleeding edge computers or software, and much prefer stable and smooth running systems.

Also, if I'm dumb for not worrying about a few hundred dollars saved reselling retired/paid for/tax depreciated computers, what does that say about you because you do?

We use our computers until they can't do the job anymore, then recycle them or turn them into admin machines.

We were Mac users back in the day, up until we saw that PC's were more powerful for the money, and more user configurable with longer lifespans (we build our own PC's).

That said, who cares, use what you like....

 

[paisleywookiee]

You missed the part where our studio computers always utilize Pro Tools and/or UA DSP, so we don't need the latest bleeding edge computers or software, and much prefer stable and smooth running systems.

So why complain about something being “obsolete”?

Also, if I'm dumb for not worrying about a few hundred dollars saved reselling retired/paid for/tax depreciated computers, what does that say about you because you do?

I’m not the one complaining about Macs moving too fast.

On one hand, you’re complaining about Macs becoming obsolete too fast. Then you say you don’t care if your computers are obsolete, you run them until the die. Uh, okay. Which is it?

Pro Tools and UA suck because you have to stick to their very specific versions of shit. Never doing that again.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I guess my point is if you care about keeping on the most modern software, and don’t want to worry about flipping computers, then yeah it can suck.
However, if you don’t need to be on the latest version of stuff, who cares? They run forever.

 

[Sascha Franck]

However, if you don’t need to be on the latest version of stuff, who cares?

Once you're also on the web, you defenitely need to stay more or less up to date.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Once you're also on the web, you defenitely need to stay more or less up to date.

Yes, I know that I’ve worked in IT for 25 years. I’m just saying if you keep it disconnected and you run your computers into the ground, it doesn’t matter.

You shouldn’t be running a fully patched version of windows on the Internet, if you care about that. There are zero days every month.

 

[djd100]

So why complain about something being “obsolete”?

I’m not the one complaining about Macs moving too fast.

On one hand, you’re complaining about Macs becoming obsolete too fast. Then you say you don’t care if your computers are obsolete, you run them until the die. Uh, okay. Which is it?

Pro Tools and UA suck because you have to stick to their very specific versions of shit. Never doing that again.

I care because Apple purposely obsoletes perfectly good HW to sell more HW, where with DIY PC's you can build what you want, and upgrade it however you want. Sure there are hacks to use newer Apple OS's on older Apple HW assuming the various CPU's line up etc, but it's just a PITA.

Apple also tends to obsolete peripherals, or require proprietary cabling, just profit generating BS that I choose to ignore. I can build a comparable or stronger PC for less, and config it exactly how I want it.

Pro Tools is still the industry standard and pretty much required for pro use, and UA offers very high quality stuff, so they're my personal choices, but you do you which is fine, use what you like.

Ciao...

 

[paisleywookiee]

I care because Apple purposely obsoletes perfectly good HW to sell more HW, where with DIY PC's you can build what you want, and upgrade it however you want. Sure there are hacks to use newer Apple OS's on older Apple HW assuming the various CPU's line up etc, but it's just a PITA.

Which isn’t remotely a new thing. Apple has always been this way. And again, if you’re running it until it dies, who cares?

Apple also tends to obsolete peripherals, or require proprietary cabling, just profit generating BS that I choose to ignore. I can a build comparable or stronger PC for less, and config it exactly how I want it.

That hasn’t been true for at least a decade. It’s all USB-C, just like everyone else. Been that way since 2015.

Pro Tools is still the industry standard and pretty much required for pro use, and UA offers very high quality stuff, so they're my personal choices, but you do you which is fine, use what you like.

Yeah, and that’s too bad. First to market doesn’t mean best, but good for Pro Tools.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’d be curious to see how much a parts computer is, compared to a relatively loaded Mac Mini M4 Pro. I’ll check out Newegg.

EDIT

Damn, look at that. $2199 for the M4 Mini with 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, and $2167.35 for the Ultra 9 285K Windows PC, with admittedly average other components, but same RAM and SSD.

Obvious edge to the PC for total modularity.

So it comes down to how long you’re going to use it, how often you plan to swap parts, whether or not you like to flip stuff, and what OS you’re willing to put up with.

 

[LeftyLoungeLizard]

What's all this back and forth about Windows vs. MacOSX?

Some people use Linux, ya know.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You shouldn’t be running a fully patched version of windows on the Internet, if you care about that.

I'm not running Windows at all.