yeky83
Roadie
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- 943
Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?
- Thread starter BenIfin
- Start date
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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- 15,628
I wished he would have adopted the voice of MachoMan Randy Savage
Lysander
Shredder
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- 2,173
For real, that was cringeworthy.
If i'm ever in the mood for random batshit-crazy political rants, i'll just sync up with a couple relatives on Facebook.
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GTR37
Rock Star
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- 3,224
perhaps , there is a role for him in the next NDSP feature film
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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- 5,408
Fwiw, as much as you or me despise these new Kemper tactics, I guess paid DLC will become quite a normal thing in some time.
I mean, once you're happy with your hardware (of course assuming it's reliable for years to come, which it better should be for a unit sitting on the floor and whereelse) and the basic quality of the software running on it (in this case amp modeling/profiling quality), there's no compelling reason anymore for you to purchase new hardware. Now, for a while companies might be able to milk a certain concept as in selling variations (smaller, bigger, faster and whatever form factors of the same thing), but even that market will be saturated one day.
So what would you do as a company?
Right, release paid updates and content. Just as is absolutely common in the software world - and once you are happy with the chosen hardware, your very modeler all of a sudden becomes nothing else but a computer to run software on. And at least one division of the company selling you their modeler would turn into something like, say, Waves.
NDSP has actually been setting the marks already. While people complain about a lot of things regarding them, I hardly read anything along the lines of it being unfair that you'd have to purchase a plugin should you also want to run it on the QC. Seems to be just fine for many folks.
What Kemper is doin here isn't too much different. Oh, the functionality was there in the Toaster already and only hidden on the Player? Sure, but NDSPs plugin functionality is there on the QC as well. Just hidden until you pay for it. Same thing, really (or at least pretty close).
I absolutely believe we will see a lot more of that in the future.
And no, I don't like it. But then, otoh, I never like idea of buying modeling hardware based on the possible amount of free updates, either. I like them, but I absolutely purchase things "as is". So I can never complain (at least not exactly...).
I mean, once you're happy with your hardware (of course assuming it's reliable for years to come, which it better should be for a unit sitting on the floor and whereelse) and the basic quality of the software running on it (in this case amp modeling/profiling quality), there's no compelling reason anymore for you to purchase new hardware. Now, for a while companies might be able to milk a certain concept as in selling variations (smaller, bigger, faster and whatever form factors of the same thing), but even that market will be saturated one day.
So what would you do as a company?
Right, release paid updates and content. Just as is absolutely common in the software world - and once you are happy with the chosen hardware, your very modeler all of a sudden becomes nothing else but a computer to run software on. And at least one division of the company selling you their modeler would turn into something like, say, Waves.
NDSP has actually been setting the marks already. While people complain about a lot of things regarding them, I hardly read anything along the lines of it being unfair that you'd have to purchase a plugin should you also want to run it on the QC. Seems to be just fine for many folks.
What Kemper is doin here isn't too much different. Oh, the functionality was there in the Toaster already and only hidden on the Player? Sure, but NDSPs plugin functionality is there on the QC as well. Just hidden until you pay for it. Same thing, really (or at least pretty close).
I absolutely believe we will see a lot more of that in the future.
And no, I don't like it. But then, otoh, I never like idea of buying modeling hardware based on the possible amount of free updates, either. I like them, but I absolutely purchase things "as is". So I can never complain (at least not exactly...).
2dor
Roadie
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- 699
There's a slight difference there because you can use the NDSP plugins on a PC without owning the QC.
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- 1,316
Maybe try one again?
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- 5,995
Never again.
laxu
Rock Star
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- 4,978
To me what Kemper is doing is more like if NeuralDSP released the Nano Cortex, and required you to buy their plugins (or upgrades like Kemper) to get more than one effect of each type. People don't complain about the plugins on QC because the QC is a reasonably full featured device as is. It's not like you need to buy Soldano X to get a Soldano model on the unit.
It's kind of like "We know you have these effects, we know the device can run them, so why are you not adding them?" that rubs people the wrong way when those come as a paid update.
For sure. Current Fractal or Line6 have so many features that it's hard to point to "must haves" that aren't just improved usability features. While feature request lists are full of "add this or that amp", I don't think those necessarily drive sales because it's usually a niche of users that would buy them, and the cost to procure and analyze those amps needs to be recouped as well. Would those asking for say Marshall Valvestates buy them or are they going "Umm...actually I'm good!" when they find out it costs money?
MirrorProfiles
Rock Star
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- 3,002
Neural DSP plugins are standalone and don’t require a QC (or ANY specific HW) in order to work. That is a crucial difference to what Kemper is doing (or Line 6 model packs back in the day). You can also buy and sell the plugins 2nd hand.
You’d need to draw a line somewhere between the modelling and what platforms it runs on - Line 6 don’t give Helix Native away for free if you own the HW, and Helix Native isn’t considered DLC the way the NDSP plugins are (despite being an optional paid extra to expand beyond the use of the HW).
You’d need to draw a line somewhere between the modelling and what platforms it runs on - Line 6 don’t give Helix Native away for free if you own the HW, and Helix Native isn’t considered DLC the way the NDSP plugins are (despite being an optional paid extra to expand beyond the use of the HW).
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So if I got the gist of it within the first minute or so I watched... he's trying to do the whole reverse uno card "No! The haters are the weirdos! Not me!" thing.... well.... <laughs> ... that surely didn't backfire!
Lysander
Shredder
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- 2,173
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PorcinePicker
Roadie
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- 120
Meh. They'll do it if people buy. I predict very few, if any takers.
BenIfin
Roadie
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- 880
Back in the day when I was doing originals, we had a manager that had been around for while - he actually gave us some great advice - to paraphrase - "nothing good happens when your head is so far up your own arse that you cant see daylight anymore" ..... words to live by ! :)
The way he posted the 2 videos and the way he was so personally offended and angry at "complainers" will stick with him ..... it will have done significant harm to his credibility .... "he was that guy that lost his shit defending Kemper Paid upgrade" .... as I've said often, if you are going to die on a hill for something, you better pick a pretty f*cking important hill.
Quite sad actually.
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Warmart
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,647
I thought in the last year or to they do give free Helix Native if you own the hardware?
Lysander
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,173
No. You can get it for very cheap if you're a Helix owner and catch a discount window, but Native was never free.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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- 5,408
I don't disagree with you folks.
Still, regardless of the function of plugins or whatever, for an end user it's "you need to pay for a feature the unit can do but that we're holding back deliberately" with both the QC and the Kemper Player.
And as long as people will buy into these things, companies will milk their users as much as possible.
I wouldn't bet on that. Maybe with the Kemper Player, people aren't too interested. But they already are with the QC.
The only way out of this would be to not expect companies to constanty update their software-driven hardware (beyond bug fixing). Once you start to expect companies to add substantial things to their devices, it's just normal that those very companies will start asking money for updated features.
In the end, it's just a matter of the price they're asking. With the Kemper Player, it's open robbery IMO, especially as they don't have to put *any* work into it (unlike finding a mechanism to avoid any hacks). But what about, say, the last HX family update? Would it be too much to ask for, say, 30 bucks or so? I don't know the answer myself.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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- 5,408
They had some promotional sales when they would give away HXN for free with all hardware purchases.
Lysander
Shredder
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- 2,173
Line 6 directly? I recall a few vendors doing bundles like that (Sweetwater et al) but i don't think i've seen HXN for free from L6.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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- 4,925
Yeah I thought it was just vendors doing that. Regardless, I’d totally pay for Native. It’s amazing. I got it for free, but I don’t remember why. Legitimately got too, not arrrgh, matey!
I think it’s because I bought the Stomp, I tried to pay the $99. There was a snafu, and then Line 6 customer service comped me, because they felt bad that something was wonky with my account.
