With one exception, the models aren’t broken they’re just not the stock circuits that some users want. L6 modeled the amps as they are, and some of them were modded or had unusual part values in places.
D
Helix 3.7: The Freeman Update
- Thread starter paisleywookiee
- Start date
With one exception, the models aren’t broken they’re just not the stock circuits that some users want. L6 modeled the amps as they are, and some of them were modded or had unusual part values in places.
D
EOengineer
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Which models are you using that faithfully recreate stock Plexi and 2204 tones? Those are the tones where Helix is coming up short.
The Brit Trem Brt can “kinda” do Plexi but has significant circuit differences. I’ve yet to find anything that can do stock 2204 tones at all.
I do like the Helix JTM45 but again that’s a different sound.
Lysander
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Brit P75 Brt (Park 75 Bright) and Litigator normally do the trick for me.
norminal
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Oh I’d totally be down for this. Seems like an obvious addition. I mean, the code is already there.
James Freeman
Rock Star
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Yeah, it's great tool to integrate with real gear, recording, live, and creating new sounds.
Preamp (pedals, rack units, amp fx send, hx preamp, captures, plugins, etc.)-> HX Poweramp model -> Flat Solid-State Poweramp -> Cab.
Preamp (...) -> HX Poweramp model -> IR -> Monitors/PA.
A Stomp/Native can replace a load box if your tube amp has an FX Send, you can use a virtual poweramp with your real tube preamp with plenty of unique models to choose from for recording/playing/foh etc.
Currently almost nobody offers versatile power amp emulation in software, Helix could kill it with ~40 unique poweramp models with a single update for software and hardware.
Preamp (pedals, rack units, amp fx send, hx preamp, captures, plugins, etc.)-> HX Poweramp model -> Flat Solid-State Poweramp -> Cab.
Preamp (...) -> HX Poweramp model -> IR -> Monitors/PA.
A Stomp/Native can replace a load box if your tube amp has an FX Send, you can use a virtual poweramp with your real tube preamp with plenty of unique models to choose from for recording/playing/foh etc.
Currently almost nobody offers versatile power amp emulation in software, Helix could kill it with ~40 unique poweramp models with a single update for software and hardware.
Foxmeister
Roadie
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- 938
James Freeman
Rock Star
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Thanks, I enjoy being a one man army.I truly admire your dedication!
I think if forumers didn't bother, Helix would have been a different product today.
PS.
I am well aware that I am repetitive, annoying and obsessive, this foruming style is very much intentional and I am fine with losing "peer points", I do what I do because I believe ideas and information has value, it reaches the right people at the right time even if they are not Line 6.
In a way, ideas and information improve the evolution of all modelers, whether they appear now in one modeler or years later in another.
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,767
Feature request: SoloDallas Storm
solodallas-shop.com
The pedal is based on this:
solodallas-shop.com
The wireless system that holds this circuit was used by many artists in the 70s and 80s to boost their amps, this SVDS circuit has the same iconic status as the Dallas Rangemaster and was part of the sound of many artists live and in the studio.
A lot of modern artists use this pedal too, as can be seen on the official page.
On the technical side, it's a simple but unique OpAmp based circuit with an opto-coupled limiter in the opamp loop.
The pedal can run on 9v-12v DC, the original wireless system ran on 15v DC, will be useful to include a voltage switch in the model.
Schematic:
aionfx.com
EDIT:
guitar.com
The Schaffer Replica® - Storm
The Storm features the 100% analog optical limiter+EQ expander+harmonic clipping circuit+boost+line buffer circuit we reverse-engineered from the original Schaffer-Vega Diversity System wireless unit used by Angus Young, David Gilmour, EVH and nearly every legendary guitarist throughout the 70s...
solodallas-shop.com
The pedal is based on this:
The Schaffer Replica® - EX Tower
[tabs][tab title="Description"] The EX Tower by Solodallas is an exact reproduction of a recently discovered interactive combination of studio grade compression, expansion, optical limiting, boost and EQ effects. This delicately balanced circuit may very well be the missing link between many...
solodallas-shop.com
The wireless system that holds this circuit was used by many artists in the 70s and 80s to boost their amps, this SVDS circuit has the same iconic status as the Dallas Rangemaster and was part of the sound of many artists live and in the studio.
A lot of modern artists use this pedal too, as can be seen on the official page.
On the technical side, it's a simple but unique OpAmp based circuit with an opto-coupled limiter in the opamp loop.
The pedal can run on 9v-12v DC, the original wireless system ran on 15v DC, will be useful to include a voltage switch in the model.
Schematic:
Tracing Journal: SoloDallas Storm
The SoloDallas Storm is a pedal conversion of the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System (SVDS), the first wireless system for guitar that was reliable enough to be used by major touring acts.
aionfx.com
EDIT:
Kirk Hammett reveals “secret weapon” to his “super-dynamic lead sound”
Kirk Hammett has shared the “secret weapon” he uses for his guitar tone within Metallica.
guitar.com
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,805
Feature request: SoloDallas Storm
The Schaffer Replica® - Storm
The Storm features the 100% analog optical limiter+EQ expander+harmonic clipping circuit+boost+line buffer circuit we reverse-engineered from the original Schaffer-Vega Diversity System wireless unit used by Angus Young, David Gilmour, EVH and nearly every legendary guitarist throughout the 70s...
The pedal is based on this:
The Schaffer Replica® - EX Tower
[tabs][tab title="Description"] The EX Tower by Solodallas is an exact reproduction of a recently discovered interactive combination of studio grade compression, expansion, optical limiting, boost and EQ effects. This delicately balanced circuit may very well be the missing link between many...
The wireless system that holds this circuit was used by many artists in the 70s and 80s to boost their amps, this SVDS circuit has the same iconic status as the Dallas Rangemaster and was part of the sound of many artists live and in the studio.
A lot of modern artists use this pedal too, as can be seen on the official page.
On the technical side, it's a simple but unique OpAmp based circuit with an opto-coupled limiter in the opamp loop.
The pedal can run on 9v-12v DC, the original wireless system ran on 15v DC, will be useful to include a voltage switch in the model.
Schematic:
Tracing Journal: SoloDallas Storm
The SoloDallas Storm is a pedal conversion of the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System (SVDS), the first wireless system for guitar that was reliable enough to be used by major touring acts.
EDIT:
Kirk Hammett reveals “secret weapon” to his “super-dynamic lead sound”
Kirk Hammett has shared the “secret weapon” he uses for his guitar tone within Metallica.
I’ve been meaning to request the same thing! I’m super curious how much it really changes the sound versus other boosts/preamps, just not enough to shell out the money for that tower unit…
I’d be equally happy for team L6 to order one and tell me it’s basically the same sound as model X so there’s no need to model the Schaefer too…
D
EOengineer
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,736
It would be awesome if the 3.7 fairy dropped the presence pull shifts for the Mesa Mark IV. The pull brights and pull fats would be cool too, but aren’t as essential for my use cases.
The presence shift needs to be pulled to cough up the 2C+ stuff on the lead channel. I need that in my life.
The presence shift needs to be pulled to cough up the 2C+ stuff on the lead channel. I need that in my life.
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,767
We already have the Pulled Presence poweramp emulated in Rhythm 1, the only thing the Pull Presence does is bypass one cap in the NFB but radically changes the poweramp and presence control response.
All they have to do is copy paste the Lead Preamp with the Rhythm 1 Poweramp, the only 'work' here is to think how to name the new model.
The response of the poweramp between Pushed and Pulled is VERY different.
With Pulled (Rhythm 1) the presence acts as a high shelf and a gradual introduction to the cab impedance curve and a slight boost as you turn the presence up, this is the classic Mark presence response.
With Pushed (Lead) we have a massive permanent 15db resonance peak and a wonky presence range, some people like it for brutal metal sound at low volumes, others think it's unusable.
As you can imagine the graphic EQ settings will be radically different and one can't use the standard Metallica V shape EQ settings with this model and expect good results.
Trivia: This was the Extreme mode in the Mark V.
We already have the correct/desired IIC+ poweramp response RIGHT NOW, but we can't use it with the Lead channel.
Below are measured poweramp response form the current Helix models with Presence 0 to 10, preamp response removed.
Last edited:
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,767
It can be kinda sorta emulated with the opto comp and some eq and boost, but so can everything else.
Maybe not worth the full Schaffer unit but the pedal model of it definitely worth having, it has a 'sound'.
Currently my favorite boost in the Helix is the Plumes with no clipping diodes, it has a huge clean headroom and versatile HPF response which I like more than your standard options like the SD-1, TS, Klon, etc.
Elf
Roadie
- Messages
- 319
Thanks for posting this very interesting, I've never heard of this wirelesses system.
From their website talking about the original wireless system "However, Schaffer designed it to boost low-mid range frequencies usually lost in wireless transmission, as well as to compand (compress then expand) the signal, thus providing the added side effect of enhancing the instrument’s tone." It would be fun to try to recreate that with the current Helix blocks available to us. I would recommend reading the background history of how the replicas came to fruition https://solodallas.com/the-schaffer-replica-history
dronerstone
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,388
Feature request: SoloDallas Storm
The Schaffer Replica® - Storm
The Storm features the 100% analog optical limiter+EQ expander+harmonic clipping circuit+boost+line buffer circuit we reverse-engineered from the original Schaffer-Vega Diversity System wireless unit used by Angus Young, David Gilmour, EVH and nearly every legendary guitarist throughout the 70s...
The pedal is based on this:
The Schaffer Replica® - EX Tower
[tabs][tab title="Description"] The EX Tower by Solodallas is an exact reproduction of a recently discovered interactive combination of studio grade compression, expansion, optical limiting, boost and EQ effects. This delicately balanced circuit may very well be the missing link between many...
The wireless system that holds this circuit was used by many artists in the 70s and 80s to boost their amps, this SVDS circuit has the same iconic status as the Dallas Rangemaster and was part of the sound of many artists live and in the studio.
A lot of modern artists use this pedal too, as can be seen on the official page.
On the technical side, it's a simple but unique OpAmp based circuit with an opto-coupled limiter in the opamp loop.
The pedal can run on 9v-12v DC, the original wireless system ran on 15v DC, will be useful to include a voltage switch in the model.
Schematic:
Tracing Journal: SoloDallas Storm
The SoloDallas Storm is a pedal conversion of the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System (SVDS), the first wireless system for guitar that was reliable enough to be used by major touring acts.
EDIT:
Kirk Hammett reveals “secret weapon” to his “super-dynamic lead sound”
Kirk Hammett has shared the “secret weapon” he uses for his guitar tone within Metallica.
I know a local guy (Vienna, Austria) who supposedly was involved in the design process for the Solodallas unit(s).
Seems they actually nailed "that" sound.
DieSchmalle
Roadie
- Messages
- 321
I concluded that too when I was wondering why my 80Hz graphic eq was so low on the lead channel. A -8dB 107Hz 2.5q para eq after the amp fixed it for me.We already have the Pulled Presence poweramp emulated in Rhythm 1, the only thing the Pull Presence does is bypass one cap in the NFB but radically changes the poweramp and presence control response.
All they have to do is copy paste the Lead Preamp with the Rhythm 1 Poweramp, the only 'work' here is to think how to name the new model.
View attachment 8202
The response of the poweramp between Pushed and Pulled is VERY different.
With Pulled (Rhythm 1) the presence acts as a high shelf and a gradual introduction to the cab impedance curve and a slight boost as you turn the presence up, this is the classic Mark presence response.
With Pushed (Lead) we have a massive permanent 15db resonance peak and a wonky presence range, some people like it for brutal metal sound at low volumes, others think it's unusable.
As you can imagine the graphic EQ settings will be radically different and one can't use the standard Metallica V shape EQ settings with this model and expect good results.
Trivia: This was the Extreme mode in the Mark V.
We already have the correct/desired IIC+ poweramp response RIGHT NOW, but we can't use it with the Lead channel.
Below are measured poweramp response form the current Helix models with Presence 0 to 10, preamp response removed.
A presence shift switch in the models would be nice.
EOengineer
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,736
Listening to some of the tones in this video, some of those bright and fat functions would be nice to have in addition to the (IMO essential) presence shifts.
Some of the tones using the “mid-gain” and presence shift are CRAZY aggressive in that video. Way too much gain happening there IMO but man does it punch.
I have to give L6 credit here, as there is def a strong resemblance to their Mark 4 lead model when he’s riffing around with the presence pushed. They nailed that even if it’s not what I’d want from a Mark series high gain lead channel.
I’d never expect L6 to follow up with all the tonal switches and special functions of this amp, but good lord imagine if they did. I think they could deliver one of the best Mesa Mark sims out there.
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,767
Note: please don't quote the entire thing, I might want to edit this post.
Some info about the important switches on the Mark IV.
PULL FAT:
Pulling this control adds a bigger treble cap in the tonestack shifting the treble frequency lower, effectively it's a low-mid frequency boost.
The Lonestart model (Cali Texas) has a 3-way switch for this cap, why did they skip it in the Mark IV model?
Most people Pull this control for the Metallica/Petrucci sound, it was modeled Pushed.
PULL BRIGHT:
Adds a small cathode cap in the 4th preamp gain stage resulting in a 6dB high shelf boost with a center frequency of 300Hz making things gainier, brighter and tighter.
It can be emulated by adding this high shelving boost filter before the gain stage to add gain and saturation.
On the IIC+ Metallica didn't Pull this control, Petrucci did.
* I used this calculator (LINK) to find what the extra cap does to the gain stage.
PRESENCE PULL SHIFT:
The most important tone shaping control in the Mark IV, it rearranges the NFB network in the poweramp that interacts with the cab and presence control.
Both Push and Pull should be modeled, each offers a completely different type of sound.
For the IIC+ sound we want it Pulled but the Lead channel was modeled with it Pushed.
As said, they already modeled it Pulled in the Rhythm 1 channel so it's a low hanging fruit, just add a new Lead channel with Rhythm 1 poweramp and make the Helix Mark IV Lead model have the classic Mark sound.
Triode/Pentode:
Rewires the two outer power tubes pair as Pentode or Triode.
Mark IIC+ and III had several models, DRG models were wired as Triode and had 75W, HRG were wired as Pentode and had 100W.
Petrucci used the HRG Pentode 100W models which his JP2C amp based on.
Metallica used the DRG Triode 75W models, their IIC++ amps were also DRG.
For most intents and purposes a Mark amp is used for (read: METAL) this can be left on Pentode.
Harmonics/Mid-Gain:
Similar to Pull Bright, Mid-Gain adds a cathode cap on the 5th (last) preamp gain stage, resulting in about 4dB high shelf boost with a center frequency of 80Hz, this is an "all frequency" tone shaping boost.
It can be emulated by adding this high shelving boost filter before the gain stage to add gain and saturation.
Mark IIC+ and III did not have this cathode cap, set it to Harmonics and forget it.
----
In essence, when modeling the Mark IV they could have made better (more popular) choices regarding the fixed switches, mainly including the Pull Fat switch for the tonestack and using the Presence Pulled poweramp, the model could have covered a LOT more Mark sounds or at least the more popular sounds of bands like Lamb of God, Dream Theater and Metallica.
PS.
A real Mark IIC+ is worth having in your collection Line 6, some day....
Some info about the important switches on the Mark IV.
PULL FAT:
Pulling this control adds a bigger treble cap in the tonestack shifting the treble frequency lower, effectively it's a low-mid frequency boost.
The Lonestart model (Cali Texas) has a 3-way switch for this cap, why did they skip it in the Mark IV model?
Most people Pull this control for the Metallica/Petrucci sound, it was modeled Pushed.
PULL BRIGHT:
Adds a small cathode cap in the 4th preamp gain stage resulting in a 6dB high shelf boost with a center frequency of 300Hz making things gainier, brighter and tighter.
It can be emulated by adding this high shelving boost filter before the gain stage to add gain and saturation.
On the IIC+ Metallica didn't Pull this control, Petrucci did.
* I used this calculator (LINK) to find what the extra cap does to the gain stage.
PRESENCE PULL SHIFT:
The most important tone shaping control in the Mark IV, it rearranges the NFB network in the poweramp that interacts with the cab and presence control.
Both Push and Pull should be modeled, each offers a completely different type of sound.
For the IIC+ sound we want it Pulled but the Lead channel was modeled with it Pushed.
As said, they already modeled it Pulled in the Rhythm 1 channel so it's a low hanging fruit, just add a new Lead channel with Rhythm 1 poweramp and make the Helix Mark IV Lead model have the classic Mark sound.
Triode/Pentode:
Rewires the two outer power tubes pair as Pentode or Triode.
Mark IIC+ and III had several models, DRG models were wired as Triode and had 75W, HRG were wired as Pentode and had 100W.
Petrucci used the HRG Pentode 100W models which his JP2C amp based on.
Metallica used the DRG Triode 75W models, their IIC++ amps were also DRG.
For most intents and purposes a Mark amp is used for (read: METAL) this can be left on Pentode.
Harmonics/Mid-Gain:
Similar to Pull Bright, Mid-Gain adds a cathode cap on the 5th (last) preamp gain stage, resulting in about 4dB high shelf boost with a center frequency of 80Hz, this is an "all frequency" tone shaping boost.
It can be emulated by adding this high shelving boost filter before the gain stage to add gain and saturation.
Mark IIC+ and III did not have this cathode cap, set it to Harmonics and forget it.
----
In essence, when modeling the Mark IV they could have made better (more popular) choices regarding the fixed switches, mainly including the Pull Fat switch for the tonestack and using the Presence Pulled poweramp, the model could have covered a LOT more Mark sounds or at least the more popular sounds of bands like Lamb of God, Dream Theater and Metallica.
PS.
A real Mark IIC+ is worth having in your collection Line 6, some day....
Last edited:
James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,767
Here's another good playthrough demo where he shows how all the switches (front and back) affect the sound.
From 7:50 to the end is the interesting part, the entire video is a great demonstration of this amp.
From 7:50 to the end is the interesting part, the entire video is a great demonstration of this amp.
Wow. The metal callout is a bit of an overstatement.
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