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*Old* Crown Power Amps.
Fractal Talk
- Thread starter laxu
- Start date
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- 444
Points to sign.Laugh at me everyone.
My level difference issue??
Was a dodgy cable.
Fucking idiot.
42 pound Amcron 2U pizza box from the 90s, think it counts?
OrganicZed
Roadie
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- 886
Frodebro
Rock Star
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I use a Mesa 20/20 often with my band (for when I feel like running regular cabs instead of direct to the PA, and built some presets specifically around that power amp and the Mesa 1x12s I run with it.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Shredder
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- 1,605
Macro-Tech 2400 or GTFO.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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One simply doesn’t give Cliff the variable of GTFO.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Shredder
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- 1,605
I was "simply" agreeing with his statement about old Crown amps that stomp on modern class D lightweight pieces of shit amps like Godzilla on a 3 day bender.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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I was "simply" agreeing with his statement about old Crown amps that stomp on modern class D lightweight pieces of shit amps like Godzilla on a 3 day bender.
I know. I forgot to put a laugh thingy there after.
jay mitchell
Roadie
- Messages
- 938
Actually, the Macro-Tech series was the beginning of the decline. The peak was the PSA2 and Macro Reference era.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,605
If you say so, I believe it. But those Macro-Tech amps were beasts for gigs, and light years better than the shit they sell today.
jay mitchell
Roadie
- Messages
- 938
Your comparison is accurate, but Crown had set the bar higher than that. Here's a post in which I explained the difference:
Those Seymour Duncan Powerstage amps are utter tripe
MacroTech amps had substantial capacity, but they fell short of their PSA2 predecessors by a significant margin.
deathbyguitar
Roadie
- Messages
- 265
I've been thinking about this post from Ciff a lot lately.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...eal-cab-vs-the-real-thing.191689/post-2383258
When asked about whether a specific brand of Class D amp is any good, he goes on to explain what makes a given amp design worth anything to begin with.
"A lot of it is about transient energy storage. A tube amp stores a LOT of energy. Take a typical 100W tube amp like a Diezel. It will typically have 220uF of reservoir capacitance and a B+ of 450V. The energy stored is 22.3 Joules!!!
Now take a typical consumer Class-D "500W" power amp (actual continuous power about 100W). They usually have voltage rails around 50V and 680uF or so of capacitance. The energy stored (assuming bipolar supplies) is 1.7 Joules.
The tube amp has over 13 times the energy storage. So those palm mute transients are reproduced accurately. The Class-D amp runs out of gas.
For example, if your transient duration is, say, 100ms, and you're pushing a full 100W then the energy required is 10 Joules. The Class-D amp simply can't do it.
It's one of my pet peeves. People use cheap, low-end, consumer grade Class-D power amps and then make bold proclamations that the models don't sound as good as the real amp without understanding even a lick of the physics involved.
I put an Axe-Fx through a Crown X2 once and it Marty McFly'd me."
Wondering if there's a way for consumers to easily or semi-easily measure an amp's energy storage capabilities without risking electrocution or something.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...eal-cab-vs-the-real-thing.191689/post-2383258
When asked about whether a specific brand of Class D amp is any good, he goes on to explain what makes a given amp design worth anything to begin with.
"A lot of it is about transient energy storage. A tube amp stores a LOT of energy. Take a typical 100W tube amp like a Diezel. It will typically have 220uF of reservoir capacitance and a B+ of 450V. The energy stored is 22.3 Joules!!!
Now take a typical consumer Class-D "500W" power amp (actual continuous power about 100W). They usually have voltage rails around 50V and 680uF or so of capacitance. The energy stored (assuming bipolar supplies) is 1.7 Joules.
The tube amp has over 13 times the energy storage. So those palm mute transients are reproduced accurately. The Class-D amp runs out of gas.
For example, if your transient duration is, say, 100ms, and you're pushing a full 100W then the energy required is 10 Joules. The Class-D amp simply can't do it.
It's one of my pet peeves. People use cheap, low-end, consumer grade Class-D power amps and then make bold proclamations that the models don't sound as good as the real amp without understanding even a lick of the physics involved.
I put an Axe-Fx through a Crown X2 once and it Marty McFly'd me."
Wondering if there's a way for consumers to easily or semi-easily measure an amp's energy storage capabilities without risking electrocution or something.
Lysander
Rock Star
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- 2,924
Not really. The energy Cliff is talking about here is stored in the power supply capacitors; "classic" amps need a lot in order to smooth out power noise and transients, which can color the sound. Class-D designs are way more forgiving regarding power noise, and are usually feed by switching power supplies to begin with anyway.
This is not something you can figure out without opening an amp up, and inspecting it. There are Class-D amps with plenty power capacitance, too - they're just not the cheap stuff most people end up running modelers through.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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- 7,842
Whatever Quilter does in the Toneblock 202 is magical. It sounds really good with modelers, is lightweight, and loud. I wish they'd do a stereo/mono switchable power amp.
Went to The Aristocrats show last night. Came back extremely impressed. These guys are absolute monsters, and it’s clear they’ve devoted their lives to music. 10/10.
They had some monitoring issues and Bryan apologized a few times during the set, but from our side everything sounded great. Bryan and Guthrie didn’t miss a note, and Marco didn’t miss a beat.
Guthrie had some of the best live guitar tones I’ve ever heard. Super clear, articulate, and dynamic. Many of his patches also added a lot of ambience and layers of effects. It really felt like there were more than three people playing on stage.
And while 99% of that is down to Guthrie’s insane skill, his Fractal tracked every note of the violin run in This Is Not Scrotum perfectly.
They had some monitoring issues and Bryan apologized a few times during the set, but from our side everything sounded great. Bryan and Guthrie didn’t miss a note, and Marco didn’t miss a beat.
Guthrie had some of the best live guitar tones I’ve ever heard. Super clear, articulate, and dynamic. Many of his patches also added a lot of ambience and layers of effects. It really felt like there were more than three people playing on stage.
And while 99% of that is down to Guthrie’s insane skill, his Fractal tracked every note of the violin run in This Is Not Scrotum perfectly.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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- 7,842
I just can't believe he uses that GoT patch he did a year or two ago. I cannot get it to sound good! But obviously whatever he's doing, works great. Was he using stereo LFR412's?
laxu
Rock Star
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- 7,559
Same for BluGuitar. I can't notice a whole lot of difference with my BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition vs Fryette PS-100, and similarly the BluGuitar Amp 1 Iridium Edition feels very similar to my Mesa Mark V 90 at full power.
Maybe I've just had too good poweramps to use with modelers so I've never been disappointed with the modeler -> poweramp -> guitar cab sounds?
