Fractal Talk

dean701 said:
I wonder how Marshall feels about everyone.

It's shocking that only Fender is now introducing a modeler.
Where has Marshall been?
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It's not like Marshall hasn't tried. Code, JMD-1 etc. They have all been a bust because either the market was not ready for them or they weren't that great. I think the acceptance of digital modelers has changed a lot in the last 3-4 years or so.

Now Marshall is owned by a company who makes headphones and Bluetooth speakers. I don't see them even trying to innovate. I don't know what their strategy is, but I am pretty sure it does not involve "let's hire some world class amp designer to make us a new lineup" when they can just roll out another 20W cheaper version of their classics.
 
laxu said:
It's not like Marshall hasn't tried. Code, JMD-1 etc. They have all been a bust because either the market was not ready for them or they weren't that great. I think the acceptance of digital modelers has changed a lot in the last 3-4 years or so.

Now Marshall is owned by a company who makes headphones and Bluetooth speakers. I don't see them even trying to innovate. I don't know what their strategy is, but I am pretty sure it does not involve "let's hire some world class amp designer to make us a new lineup" when they can just roll out another 20W cheaper version of their classics.
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true, many amp manufacturers have done the hybrid digital thing. I was speaking of an actual modeler. It will only be a matter of time before Marshall is whittled away to nothing from an amplifier point of view. There are too many that have engineered/re-engineered their past offerings and they have been losing their piece of the pie for decades. When you are at the top there is only one way to go. If they took notice of Fender and were smart they could have a quick cash cow waiting for them in a modeler. Each year the modelers get closer and closer to the real deal and at this point, I personally don't know many that bring an amp to a gig. It's all modelers all the time.
 
laxu said:
It's not like Marshall hasn't tried. Code, JMD-1 etc. They have all been a bust because either the market was not ready for them or they weren't that great. I think the acceptance of digital modelers has changed a lot in the last 3-4 years or so.

Now Marshall is owned by a company who makes headphones and Bluetooth speakers. I don't see them even trying to innovate. I don't know what their strategy is, but I am pretty sure it does not involve "let's hire some world class amp designer to make us a new lineup" when they can just roll out another 20W cheaper version of their classics.
Click to expand...

I could see them doing a CODE 2 that is basically a Spark type thing and selling it the same way as the Spark ("it's an amp and a bluetooth speaker").
 
I think a lot of these companies would be better off figuring out a way to replace the vacuum tube with something that goes straight into the sockets. Or figure out an economical and eco-friendly way to create a tube.

(a man can dream!)
 
Orvillain said:
I think a lot of these companies would be better off figuring out a way to replace the vacuum tube with something that goes straight into the sockets. Or figure out an economical and eco-friendly way to create a tube.

(a man can dream!)
Click to expand...

They need to start astroturfing in forums about "how much better solid state is than digital because it's warm and analog" and recreate synth culture but with guitar amps, and then make like Orange and Quilter and put out some decent (!) solid state amps. Just think: Marshall comes out with a new Lead 100 MOSFET and sells it as a vintage reissue so they can justify selling it for 5x the price of the Super Crush 100 (and used prices for the original Lead 100 MOSFET lol). Flawless plan.

Guitar World review:
"This authentic reissue of the vintage 80s Marshall amp brings you 100 watts of JCM800 history without the cost of tubes, but with the authentic, fully analog warmth and character you won't find in digital recreations"

(ETA: I actually love the Lead 100 MOSFET and Super Crush though haha)
 
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!! said:
the brady bunch marcia marcia marcia GIF
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Marshall_Marshall_Marshall.gif
 
I know this is the fractal talk thread, but isn’t Dave’s gripe mainly with the Axe (although he doesn’t come out and say that usually)? He says good things about the neural and Helix (except he doesn’t like the complexity of setting up a helix), which sorta clarifies he doesn’t like the Axe. Seems like a lot of Fractal guys don’t like the Friedman models either after one of the FW revisions. Maybe it’s just that he thinks the Axe doesn’t get his amps right, which it seems like most fractal guys that are familiar with his amps agree with.

D
 
I think the Friedman models are bang on in Fractal, and likewise on other platforms (no, not you TMP).

I wish Fractal had his other circuits available, especially:

- Naked (both versions)
- JEL 100


i’d also be up for Butterslax, JJ, SS and Phil X, although I’d imagine tweaking the BE models would get very close as they all share the same base circuit.
 
dk_ace said:
Seems like a lot of Fractal guys don’t like the Friedman models either after one of the FW revisions. Maybe it’s just that he thinks the Axe doesn’t get his amps right, which it seems like most fractal guys that are familiar with his amps agree with.
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I’m one of those guys who has had a hard time with the Friedman amps after the Cygnus updates. But I also bought an IR-X recently and A/B-ed that against the Fractal Friedmans and they sounded very very close. My conclusion was that they are pretty accurately modelled.

Doesn’t make me wish any less to have the Ares-era HBE C45 tones back 🥲
 
saarangnarayan said:
I’m one of those guys who has had a hard time with the Friedman amps after the Cygnus updates. But I also bought an IR-X recently and A/B-ed that against the Fractal Friedmans and they sounded very very close. My conclusion was that they are pretty accurately modelled.

Doesn’t make me wish any less to have the Ares-era HBE C45 tones back 🥲
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have you tried out the new Stealth Blue/Red they have lower mids kind of like Friedman/Bogner they will be tighter and have more gain but turning up the personal and backing off the gain might get you in the ballpark
 
GTR37 said:
have you tried out the new Stealth Blue/Red they have lower mids kind of like Friedman/Bogner they will be tighter and have more gain but turning up the personal and backing off the gain might get you in the ballpark
Click to expand...
I did and I really liked it! It's the best sounding 5150 III variant for sure. But the thing I liked about the older firmware versions of the Friedman amps was the upper-mid punch. Now it seems like the lower-mids are more emphasised, which seems to have taken away from the articulate attack of the older versions. I've grown to realise that the JVM OD2 Orange and the Cameron CCV 2C are pretty good for that upper-mid punch kinda thing, too, although they sound just a smidgen more compressed than a Friedman.
 
Here's the story with the Friedman models:
The BE/HBE have the gain pot before the last gain stage. This is a poor design choice IMO because you're always getting distortion even if you turn the gain down. Bad gain-staging IOW. Before the Cygnus firmware I was more about "make it sound good" rather than accuracy. Hence, non-authentic pot tapers, etc. So I moved the gain pot forward a stage because it sounded better to me that way. I left the treble peaker before the last stage and just moved the gain pot forward. More like a classic Marshall.

But as our products became more and more popular the cries of "it doesn't sound exactly like my amp" became more frequent. So Cygnus became all about authenticity. There are still some remnants of Ares left over (i.e., pot tapers) that we have been correcting over time as we discover them but now the models behave like the amps and my tweaks to make things "sound better" have been removed, for better or worse.
 
FractalAudio said:
Here's the story with the Friedman models:
The BE/HBE have the gain pot before the last gain stage. This is a poor design choice IMO because you're always getting distortion even if you turn the gain down. Bad gain-staging IOW. Before the Cygnus firmware I was more about "make it sound good" rather than accuracy. Hence, non-authentic pot tapers, etc. So I moved the gain pot forward a stage because it sounded better to me that way. I left the treble peaker before the last stage and just moved the gain pot forward. More like a classic Marshall.

But as our products became more and more popular the cries of "it doesn't sound exactly like my amp" became more frequent. So Cygnus became all about authenticity. There are still some remnants of Ares left over (i.e., pot tapers) that we have been correcting over time as we discover them but now the models behave like the amps and my tweaks to make things "sound better" have been removed, for better or worse.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS!!!!! Can't tell you how many hours I've spent trying to replicate the Ares sound in Cygnus but never quite getting there despite all the advanced parameter editing tricks I tried. Anyway, I'm glad you made the change simply because it forced me to try new amps in the unit and find sounds I would probably never have chanced upon otherwise.

This does prompt the question though: what other hot-rod marshall amp models would you say have the gain pot forward enough to have that "sounds better" effect? I've tried and loved the JVM, CCV, and the Nitro that seem to do that upper-mid attack thing quite well, but I wonder what other ones would be similar?

P.S.- long shot considering how much is already in there, but a FAS idealised version of a BE/HBE would be awesome!
 
saarangnarayan said:
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS!!!!! Can't tell you how many hours I've spent trying to replicate the Ares sound in Cygnus but never quite getting there despite all the advanced parameter editing tricks I tried. Anyway, I'm glad you made the change simply because it forced me to try new amps in the unit and find sounds I would probably never have chanced upon otherwise.

This does prompt the question though: what other hot-rod marshall amp models would you say have the gain pot forward enough to have that "sounds better" effect? I've tried and loved the JVM, CCV, and the Nitro that seem to do that upper-mid attack thing quite well, but I wonder what other ones would be similar?

P.S.- long shot considering how much is already in there, but a FAS idealised version of a BE/HBE would be awesome!
Click to expand...
The BE/HBE are the only Marshall-esque amps with the gain pot that far back in the circuit.

I will consider a FAS version of the HBE w/ the gain pot in the "correct" spot.
 
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