Fractal Talk

[TSJMajesty]

makes sense, the fractal Revv models are the most lifelike in the whole box, imnho they came out better than even the JP-2C or subway blues

idk what they did different with the Revv models compared to recto models but Revv purple (recto vintage equivalent) with gain below 9 o'clock with a DS-1 in front does a unique bubbly distortion texture that recto vintage modes +DS-1 do in real life, but recto vintage models +DS-1 don't unless you turn on cathode resistance

Have you ever tried that Thorendal? It's some type of old Recto.

 

[Frodebro]

I don't know Dave but I can understand that if everyone was switching to modelers and if I were an amp builder, it would grind my gears. I can also understand how that would make me want to put out products like the IR-x with a cab loader included to help get in the game somewhat.
I can't speak to any of his evolving opinions towards specific modelers, although my opinion changes as the tech changes every 5 seconds.

I wonder how Marshall feels about Dave Friedman…

 

[dean701]

I wonder how Marshall feels about Dave Friedman…

I wonder how Marshall feels about everyone.

It's shocking that only Fender is now introducing a modeler.
Where has Marshall been?

 

[DrewJD82]

We might see Dave change his tone on modelers in the future. He was griping about modelers in a Big Wreck post the other day and some smartass called him out-

 

[Mongillo19]

We might see Dave change his tone on modelers in the future. He was griping about modelers in a Big Wreck post the other day and some smartass called him out-

View attachment 15501

That would be pretty sick but also against everything he ever says. I'll put all this money and time into developing a power amp for gear that I think sucks. I just hope it isn't exclusive to his gear or "modelers". Not sure how that would even happen but still

 

[TSJMajesty]

Aren't Dave's amps made by some other "entity"? Whatever the arrangement, I'm thinking in order to set something like that up, in order to agree on the price that Dave pays them, there would have to be a quantity produced, over some time period, right?

So I wonder if he's under some sort of contractual situation that he has to honor for some length of time, and if that's at least part of the reason he disses modelers like he does: He still has X number of units he basically has to pay for, to be built, (and of course, sell at a profit) until he can fully go in other directions. And he can clearly see the market forces going in other directions.

I say 'fully', because he's already doing so with the IR-X, but I don't see Freidman as some sort of deep-pockets company, who can just start developing a modeler (like say, Fender), until he gets free of other financial obligations.

This is all just speculation on my part... And if it was true, it might just be a simple case of him being bitter at the situation. I wouldn't want to be the owner of a company whose main products are $4000 guitar amplifiers. Not now!

 

[dean701]

Adapt or be like blockbuster video.

 

[Mongillo19]

I wonder if Dave thinks the missing link to modelers is the power amp emulation

 

[DrewJD82]

That would be pretty sick but also against everything he ever says. I'll put all this money and time into developing a power amp for gear that I think sucks. I just hope it isn't exclusive to his gear or "modelers". Not sure how that would even happen but still

In pretty much every episode of ToneTalk when they get into the modeler discussion, which is probably 3/4's of them by now, his biggest gripe is the silent stage thing and that's when he gets into all the 'death of rock and roll' talk, which I can actually agree with, both from an audience perspective, but really the band perspective. Something different happens in a room with a loud ass drummer and cranked amps that doesn't happen on a silent stage, from both perspectives.

I think the compromise is going to have the mindset of live cabs for feel and a DI for the PA, which is starting to happen more and more these days. It's exactly what Big Wreck is doing now, Periphery has been at it for a while, the dude from Rival Sons, etc. The Class D stuff only goes so far. It'd be great if it were scalable with a shitload of headroom at each point. The compromise on the guitar player's side has to legit be "just enough to feel it" and not "I got a badass power amp PANTFLAAAAAP"

 

[synthpenguin]

That would be pretty sick but also against everything he ever says. I'll put all this money and time into developing a power amp for gear that I think sucks. I just hope it isn't exclusive to his gear or "modelers". Not sure how that would even happen but still

Idk I can see it.

He probably sees it as something to pair with the IR-X or other analog preamps vs just a modeler. So it becomes "get the IR-X for headphones, recording, and direct to FOH, and then buy this power amp to play it through a cab".

Outside of the modeler world, a lot of people already do this with pedalboard setups that revolve around analog preamps (e.g. the Origin Effects stuff, the Victory pedal amps that don't have the built-in power amp). And a lot of the analog pedal amps have a built-in power amp too (the Milkman and Victory ones that are tube-based, the Quilter solid state stuff, etc), so this would be breaking that into two products.

The IR-X page already cites this use case too:

Do you want all the benefits of IR-X’s all-tube preamp section but prefer a live cabinet onstage? No problem. Simply connect the effects loop Send to your time-based effects and then to your amps power section. You can still send the IR output to the console to avoid the hassles of live mic’ing the cabinet (see manual for details).

 

[synthpenguin]

Aren't Dave's amps made by some other "entity"? Whatever the arrangement, I'm thinking in order to set something like that up, in order to agree on the price that Dave pays them, there would have to be a quantity produced, over some time period, right?

I don't know about the rest, but as far as I know the Friedman amps, like a lot of these brands now, are made and distributed by Boutique Amps Distribution, which sounds like a fake company but is very real lol

Boutique Amps Distribution

 

[Orvillain]

I bet Dave couldn't pick between one of his amps and a modeller in a blind test.

 

[FractalAudio]

I bet Dave couldn't pick between one of his amps and a modeller in a blind test.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

 

[paisleywookiee]

We might see Dave change his tone on modelers in the future. He was griping about modelers in a Big Wreck post the other day and some smartass called him out-

View attachment 15501

That Drew guy was out of line! What a dick!

 

[la szum]

I bet Dave couldn't pick between one of his amps and a modeller in a blind test.

This Dave could easily pick between one of Friedman's amps and a Marshall.

 

[dean701]

you guys are too mucking fuch.

 

[laxu]

Aren't Dave's amps made by some other "entity"? Whatever the arrangement, I'm thinking in order to set something like that up, in order to agree on the price that Dave pays them, there would have to be a quantity produced, over some time period, right?

So I wonder if he's under some sort of contractual situation that he has to honor for some length of time, and if that's at least part of the reason he disses modelers like he does: He still has X number of units he basically has to pay for, to be built, (and of course, sell at a profit) until he can fully go in other directions. And he can clearly see the market forces going in other directions.

While BAD makes the amps, I don't think this is it. I would assume the amounts made are largely based on what stores are ordering. He doesn't have to diss modelers, he could be a lot more cordial about it and just say he prefers his tube amps.

I say 'fully', because he's already doing so with the IR-X, but I don't see Freidman as some sort of deep-pockets company, who can just start developing a modeler (like say, Fender), until he gets free of other financial obligations.

I don't see this happening. The IR-X is really trying to pave way to more markets as more and more people want something they can play quietly at home, or is easily portable etc. Friedman got into the pedal business probably for similar reasons.

I don't see Friedman try to become a player in the digital modeler market at all since that requires a lot of expertise that is not in his wheelhouse and is a pretty big investment overall. We can look at the Tone Master Pro and see that even for a big company like Fender it doesn't always play out great from the start because the bar is very high thanks to Fractal and Line6.

This is all just speculation on my part... And if it was true, it might just be a simple case of him being bitter at the situation. I wouldn't want to be the owner of a company whose main products are $4000 guitar amplifiers. Not now!

I think there's definitely some of that. Everywhere on the globe guitarists are tightening their pursestrings as higher costs of living eat significantly even into the pockets of those who are relatively well off. So a $4K boutique amp might no longer be a consideration and instead people are looking at the $2K amp.

I think we will see a lot more products similar to the Soldano Astra - also made by BAD, and sharing the IR-X editor software. A bit cheaper, less feature packed amps with built-in IR loaders.

 

[OrganicZed]

I bet Dave couldn't pick between one of his amps and a modeller in a blind test.

I would love to see that blindfold challenge.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I wonder how Marshall feels about Dave Friedman…

 

[dean701]