Fractal Talk

[DrewJD82]

Bogner did something similar with the Uberschall. There's a component for the negative feedback circuit located in a completely different location. I forget exactly but it's on the fx loop PCB or something weird like that. Again this was done to dissuade people from copying the design.

It’s an empty can of Ready Whip, isn’t it?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

The most challenging amps are Engls because their schematics are intentionally wrong. If I have an accurate schematic I can model an amp in a short time. It's just a matter of plugging in the data. But when the schematic is wrong it becomes a chore.

Another challenging amp was the latest Diezel that I did (Herbie 3). I traced this one even though it's circuit board amp. I just couldn't get the preamp to match. Then I discovered a part hidden on the control PCB. Obviously this part was put there, and not on the main PCB, so that people wouldn't see it and make it hard to copy the amp. I remember saying at the time "Peter you sneaky b!@#$".

Bogner did something similar with the Uberschall. There's a component for the negative feedback circuit located in a completely different location. I forget exactly but it's on the fx loop PCB or something weird like that. Again this was done to dissuade people from copying the design.

Do you have any stories about chipping away potting epoxy from amp or pedal internals? I bet those are fun times.

 

[laxu]

The most challenging amps are Engls because their schematics are intentionally wrong. If I have an accurate schematic I can model an amp in a short time. It's just a matter of plugging in the data. But when the schematic is wrong it becomes a chore.

Is this some weird scheme where they write the schematic wrong and tell techs to do X and Y instead, so somebody (like a certain Mr. Chase! ) doesn't try to clone their amp from schematics?

 

[FractalAudio]

Is this some weird scheme where they write the schematic wrong and tell techs to do X and Y instead, so somebody (like a certain Mr. Chase! ) doesn't try to clone their amp from schematics?

They have two versions of schematics: in-house and public. The in-house ones are correct, the public ones are intentionally wrong but correct enough for people to use as a troubleshooting aid.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Lol unlike NDSP who probably does a capture then returns the amp to the store

"Hi Guitar Center? This totally is NOT Doug Castro...What was your return policy again?"

 

[GTR37]

Hahahahha imagine tracing a Road King without the schematic.

Or A KSR Artemis where Kyle is skilled in EE and computer programming

 

[laxu]

"Hi Guitar Center? This totally is NOT Doug Castro...What was your return policy again?"

We have enough music stores in Helsinki that NDSP could probably go through a good amount of them and return amps before the stores will no longer sell them anything.

Plus there's amp rentals but I have no idea if they have anything actually interesting or just some busted Hot Rod Deluxes.

 

[fretworn]

They have two versions of schematics: in-house and public. The in-house ones are correct, the public ones are intentionally wrong but correct enough for people to use as a troubleshooting aid.

Congratulations on those new reverbs … incredible and stellar work!

 

[gearJunkie]

Mean to Clean : Plexi on 11 tones from @2112

 

[GTR37]

I own almost every amp that we've modeled. I have a Dumble, Trainwreck, Ruby Rocket, multiple Carol-Anns, a Mark IIC+, a Mark IV, a Mark V, a JP2C, (2) Triaxis, about a dozen Marshalls, at least a dozen Fenders, etc., etc. I have two BE 100s: an original Purple one made when Dave was just a little shop and a newer one with all the latest changes.

We have a room with a pool table. You can't use it because there are amps stacked all around it and then more in the hallway and probably another 20 or so in my office. It's kind of ridiculous.

I'd love to model the Badlander and I would simply buy one but AFAIK schematics are not available. I can model simple PTP amps and turret-board amps without a schematic because the circuits are fairly easy to trace but modern PCB amps with lots of features are nearly impossible to trace.

I circuit traced a couple Bogners and that was a nightmare. Took me days/weeks. OTOH I traced a Dr. Z in a few hours.

Cliff regarding the Bogners I know the 20th Anniversary is the one in the Axe ,do you know the differences
Between the 101b?
is there advice that you could give as to how to match that ,is it just a few changes or would it be not easily doable with the 20th pre

 

[GTR37]

I would think the only people that could potentially have schematics on the new Mesas would be authorized repair techs

 

[paisleywookiee]

We have enough music stores in Helsinki that NDSP could probably go through a good amount of them and return amps before the stores will no longer sell them anything.

Plus there's amp rentals but I have no idea if they have anything actually interesting or just some busted Hot Rod Deluxes.

Guitar Center sells me enough broken shit that I’ve got to return it anyway.

 

[fretworn]

Guitar Center sells me enough broken shit that I’ve got to return it anyway.

Don’t you need a set of Mesa Badlander 50w circuit diagrams/schematics …

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'd love to model the Badlander and I would simply buy one but AFAIK schematics are not available. I can model simple PTP amps and turret-board amps without a schematic because the circuits are fairly easy to trace but modern PCB amps with lots of features are nearly impossible to trace.

I am not sure if schematics are available or not, but I could check. I used to think the Badlander and Triple Crown weren't far apart, but now that we've got them again, comparing them side by side they're quite different (besides the obvious feature differences). As far as I know the Badlander and Fillmore are both "single channel amps with two 'presets'" type deal, since they're two identical channels with three modes.

 

[gearJunkie]

As far as I know the Badlander and Fillmore are both "single channel amps with two 'presets'" type deal, since they're two identical channels with three modes.

That's equal to three models each for both the Badlander and the Fillmore in Fractalese.

 

[GTR37]

We have enough music stores in Helsinki that NDSP could probably go through a good amount of them and return amps before the stores will no longer sell them anything.

Plus there's amp rentals but I have no idea if they have anything actually interesting or just some busted Hot Rod Deluxes.

That explains it

 

[GTR37]

Don’t you need a set of Mesa Badlander 50w circuit diagrams/schematics …

Yes this customer is going to be very upset Paisley, if you can’t diagnose the ground hum

 

[paisleywookiee]

That's equal to three models each for both the Badlander and the Fillmore in Fractalese.

Yeah, presumably, and based off of what they've done with the Triple Crown, JP-2C, Revv stuff, etc. Seems reasonable for sure. I honestly don't know how much I'd even need a Badlander anymore, if it got modeled. I know @Desertdweller sold his JP-2C because the models in the FM9 are so damn spot on.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Yes this customer is going to be very upset Paisley, if you can’t diagnose the ground hum

But there is no ground hu........oh. I see what you did there.

 

[GTR37]

But there is no ground hu........oh. I see what you did there.

Lol yes but seriously I would not want you to lose a job over it
Honestly Gibson is probably no fun to deal with