Fractal Talk

[Boudoir Guitar]

A VP4 + VA4 combo would wind up, for me, to just be an expensive loop to wind up back at either an FM9 or an AxeFx III + FC12.

I don’t have complicated patches, but having modulated bias for tremolo in the amp block; ability to run a spring reverb in front of the amp and a room reverb after; ability to run a preamp in the cab block without worrying about “quality” or anything, all were reasons I ditched the FM3 and remain perfectly happy having the overkill of the Axe.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Another example, again using something that doesn't involve using more DSP in order to switch.

JVM Mid switch, on the amp its just a toggle button:

On Axe Edit, you have to load the amp, then go to the preamp page, then tonestack type and then find it here:

And on the actual device, you have to tab along to the Advanced tab, then scroll through the list to find tonestack type. And then just scroll until the right ones suddenly appear (has anyone noticed the order of the Tonestacks before on the device?):



What is the likelihood of ANY of these options besides the 2 JVM Satriani options being the one the user wants? I get why it is the way it is, but it's one of those situations where having total flexibility works against the experience of having an accurate model.

And this is just one example, almost every amp is going to have its own unique quirks - if the user is familiar with a particular amp, they'll know what to do but its not always going to be obvious.

 

[udi9]

The one thing that does kinda suck and I hope they fix it is swapping blocks around. You basically can't and you need to hook up the software

Move Blocks Feature request on unit

First time on the forum and a happy new VP-4 user!! I’m new to the Fractal ecosystem, is there anyway to move blocks on the unit? Example: i have a drive set up in A, and made a chorus sound in B, but i think i would prefer it before the drive, but i can’t just swap them correct? I would have...

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[Orvillain]

Ah nice find! I think Matt recently said that v2.0 was about to go into alpha or beta testing.

 

[Orvillain]

I don’t have complicated patches, but having modulated bias for tremolo in the amp block; ability to run a spring reverb in front of the amp and a room reverb after; ability to run a preamp in the cab block without worrying about “quality” or anything, all were reasons I ditched the FM3 and remain perfectly happy having the overkill of the Axe.

Yeah the FM3 never appealed to me because of too many compromises. I think I'd genuinely get on with the FM9 just as well as the Axe3. But I really love my real amps, and whichever "main" Fractal device I have, the VP4 still seems worth the buy.

 

[Orvillain]

Another example, again using something that doesn't involve using more DSP in order to switch.

JVM Mid switch, on the amp its just a toggle button:

View attachment 39923

On Axe Edit, you have to load the amp, then go to the preamp page, then tonestack type and then find it here:

View attachment 39924

And on the actual device, you have to tab along to the Advanced tab, then scroll through the list to find tonestack type. And then just scroll until the right ones suddenly appear (has anyone noticed the order of the Tonestacks before on the device?):



What is the likelihood of ANY of these options besides the 2 JVM Satriani options being the one the user wants? I get why it is the way it is, but it's one of those situations where having total flexibility works against the experience of having an accurate model.

And this is just one example, almost every amp is going to have its own unique quirks - if the user is familiar with a particular amp, they'll know what to do but its not always going to be obvious.

Yep, this is a good example of flexibility and scope flowing through to create a complicated and slower product.

You know full well that 90% of people who load that amp just want to load up the amp, select the channel, and hit the mid switch. The 10% who will fight to the death for the status quo because they think they use all of these options all of the time... well... put them in a 1800's mental institution and attach them to car batteries.

 

[jellodog]

Move Blocks Feature request on unit

First time on the forum and a happy new VP-4 user!! I’m new to the Fractal ecosystem, is there anyway to move blocks on the unit? Example: i have a drive set up in A, and made a chorus sound in B, but i think i would prefer it before the drive, but i can’t just swap them correct? I would have...

forum.fractalaudio.com

Thought: If they finally added a global "undo" we probably wouldn't need an "are you sure?" more most actions

 

[metropolis_4]

I know this won’t happen, but this is what I’d be most excited to see as a VA4:

4 amp blocks with a global cab block at the end. Nothing else.

The footswitches toggle between the amp blocks, so it’s basically just a digital 4 channel amp and you get to choose what each channel is.

 

[Orvillain]

I know this won’t happen, but this is what I’d be most excited to see as a VA4:

4 amp blocks with a global cab block at the end. Nothing else.

The footswitches toggle between the amp blocks, so it’s basically just a digital 4 channel amp and you get to choose what each channel is.

I'd be looking for 2 amps and 2 boosts, and 1 fixed cab block at the end, with the ability to tap the signal path before the cab, in order to route the amp-only signal to a power amp at the same time as routing the main output to the front of house at a venue.

At least that seems to be what is required to compete in the market these days.

 

[Stratzrus]

Call me irresponsible but if I got a VP4 I'd use it for effects only with a tube amp and if I needed amp modeling I'd use a FM9.

 

[metropolis_4]

I'd be looking for 2 amps and 2 boosts, and 1 fixed cab block at the end, with the ability to tap the signal path before the cab, in order to route the amp-only signal to a power amp at the same time as routing the main output to the front of house at a venue.

At least that seems to be what is required to compete in the market these days.

I’m with you on the routing, it would almost be crazy not to provide that. I would also like to see a balanced XLR out along with the spdif so you can connect a VP4 either pre or post and have the final signal go out XLR.

My thought on boosts is let boosts be boosts and amps be amps. And just let the VA4 be an amp.

It would be good to have something like two global masters that could be footswitched for solo boost. That’s something you expect to see on certain amps. But I’d rather have it just be like an amp and I’ll throw my own boosts in front of it.

 

[metropolis_4]

Call me irresponsible but if I got a VP4 I'd use it for effects only with a tube amp and if I needed amp modeling I'd use a FM9.

I could see a VA4 filling a third scenario: I want to use my own analog pedals in front of an amp, so I just want a digital stand-in for an amp and nothing more.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Tbh I’d love dedicated I/O for an amp DI and IR output(s). Anything that reduces the need for assigning I/O, using panning and mixer blocks to send to different outputs etc

 

[laxu]

Jumping from block to block on the VP4 involves pressing a footswitch and hitting the enter button. It is so quick. I'm not exactly sure how quickly you're expecting to do this stuff - it's never going to read your mind!

I don't see that in the manual? So you're saying if you press a footswitch, it will highlight the corresponding block and pressing Enter will go edit? What about if you want to edit another block, like say you are editing your delay and want to go to reverb. Exit -> hit another switch -> Enter?

To me the scroll knob and Exit/Enter seemed like a simplified version of the terrible grid editing we had before we got the double click Edit = go back a block shortcut on the Axe-Fx. I remember hating that so much when I just wanted to edit Amp -> Cab -> Amp -> Drive etc.

My beefs with most modelers on the market have to do with "how do I get as quickly as possible to edit the things I want, and then go edit another thing". QC and Hotone have been the least frustrating for me in this regard, but have their own problems too.

 

[metropolis_4]

My thing with modelers has always been “how do I get as quickly as possible to the next sound I need during the show”

I’m always looking for the modeler that lets me handle all my changes throughout a show as efficiently as possible with as few footswitch presses as possible.

If I have to do something like change banks, then select a preset, then change footswitch mode, then toggle an effect. Nope.

 

[Orvillain]

I don't see that in the manual? So you're saying if you press a footswitch, it will highlight the corresponding block and pressing Enter will go edit? What about if you want to edit another block, like say you are editing your delay and want to go to reverb. Exit -> hit another switch -> Enter?

Yes. That is exactly how it works when you're in the effects view. If you want to edit another block, it is pretty quick to come out and select it and go back in. You can't move to another block whilst in edit mode. Doesn't slow me down though. I made you a wee video:

To me the scroll knob and Exit/Enter seemed like a simplified version of the terrible grid editing we had before we got the double click Edit = go back a block shortcut on the Axe-Fx. I remember hating that so much when I just wanted to edit Amp -> Cab -> Amp -> Drive etc.

I mean, it is a similar concept. But better executed. How much time do you spend criticising the design of a thing, versus actually using muscle memory to get used to it? I truly wonder that at this point.

My beefs with most modelers on the market have to do with "how do I get as quickly as possible to edit the things I want, and then go edit another thing". QC and Hotone have been the least frustrating for me in this regard, but have their own problems too.

There is no perfect solution. There is only workflow designed to be as good as it can be within the limitations of the design, coupled with muscle memory. If you take away understanding of the former, and willingness to build up the later, then you're always going to be frustrated by gear IMHO.

 

[laxu]

Yes. That is exactly how it works when you're in the effects view. If you want to edit another block, it is pretty quick to come out and select it and go back in. You can't move to another block whilst in edit mode. Doesn't slow me down though. I made you a wee video:

Thanks for making this video! That does look pretty fast, excluding the stupid Fractal-isms like 0.1 Hz granularity low/high cuts etc.

It's literally been impossible to find any sensible videos about editing on the VP4 hardware. Everything is just "oh look you scroll like this to add an effects type and now you select the effect" and it literally ends there, never showing how it is to tweak the thing, go back and forth when you have your blocks in place. Then others just use the VP4 editor software because you can throw that on screen with OBS instead of setting up a camera.

Even the manual doesn't say anything that you can do it like this. I thought you really had to scroll the blocks one by one with the scroll knob. Like the awful layout view on Axe-Fx, just limited to 4 blocks.

I think this could still be faster like go from block to block without stopping at home screen, but it's still much better than I thought.

That gives me a more positive look on the VP4. Still not buying one due to its cost, but this certainly removed some of the criticisms I've had for it.

Now I wish Fractal provided something similar on their bigger units so you didn't need the Edit spam but could e.g stomp on a per preset footswitch to highlight the right block if you are in layout view.

 

[Orvillain]

Thanks for making this video! That does look pretty fast, excluding the stupid Fractal-isms like 1 Hz granularity low/high cuts etc.

It's literally been impossible to find any sensible videos about editing on the VP4 hardware. Everything is just "oh look you scroll like this to add an effects type and now you select the effect" and it literally ends there, never showing how it is to tweak the thing, go back and forth when you have your blocks in place. Then others just use the VP4 editor software because you can throw that on screen with OBS instead of setting up a camera.

Even the manual doesn't say anything that you can do it like this. I thought you really had to scroll the blocks one by one with the scroll knob. Like the awful layout view on Axe-Fx, just limited to 4 blocks.

That gives me a more positive look on the VP4. Still not buying one due to its cost, but this certainly removed some of the criticisms I've had for it.

I'll do a proper video on it at some point. I agree that most videos have skimmed over it far too much and rely on the software.