Fractal Talk

Shredder777 said:
Yes, it is top candidate to replace my current mfx, but I'm doing the IR-X thing now. If/when I get bored with that I will get an FM3. Or maybe the next Helix, or...
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Wait, you don’t even have a Fractal?

So you’re basing your entire argument that Fractal amp modeling is fake and unrealistic off one person saying a Plexi can sound aggressive, without any personal experience with it?
 
Mongillo19 said:
Did you ever try the tone x?
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I cancelled the order and got the IR-X instead. I still have a licence to the software I got earlier, but haven't been motivated to install it yet.

I got the IR-X because it is a midi controlled preamp that I can use instead of the preamp in my IRT60h (which is fiddy and no midi). I wanted a tube amp I could control from my desk but that can also direct record.
 
metropolis_4 said:
Wait, you don’t even have a Fractal?

So you’re basing your entire argument that Fractal amp modeling is fake and unrealistic off one person saying a Plexi can sound aggressive, without any personal experience with it?
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I never said fake. My argument stems around a problem with all modelers (hardware, software) I have used, which is they don't impose the same limits as real gear.

I am sorry if I waded into a debate I am not qualified for, but the claim of Fractal+Plexi+aggressive set off an alarm. I thought he was talking about metallica style metal with a plexi, which I have no doubt is possible inside the fractal.
 
Shredder777 said:
I never said fake. My argument stems around a problem with all modelers (hardware, software) I have used, which is they don't impose the same limits as real gear.

I am sorry if I waded into a debate I am not qualified for, but the claim of Fractal+Plexi+aggressive set off an alarm. I thought he was talking about metallica style metal with a plexi, which I have no doubt is possible inside the fractal.
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I kinda know what you mean, it was a lot more common in older generations of digital modeling than it is today.

My experience with Fractal has been that the amps behave very much how I expect based on my experience with the real amps. Fractal gives a lot of tools to tweak and mod amps the same way you can with physical amps, and I’ve been impressed that these all behave very much how I would expect, and the amps respond in a natural way to these changes. It’s not perfect, but it’s very impressive.

In that Metallica clip I recorded with the Strat into a Twin, for example, the amp modeling behaved and sounded just like I expected it should with the mods I did to it. That was not an unrealistic Twin tone.


To flip your comment around though, why do you want your gear to impose limits on you?
 
metropolis_4 said:
To flip your comment around though, why do you want your gear to impose limits on you?
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Running things through a modeler has a homogenizing affect on things. In the same way that running different preamps through the same power amp and speakers does.

I want everything to be as distinct and unique as possible.

I would expect the Plexi to have a flubby bottom end that is not tight enough for metal. If there is an 800 or 2cp model, it should be infinitely preferrable to use either of those than a plexi for mid/late 80s metal.

If you use the plexi and it doesn't make it harder to get those tones, if there isn't some deficiency to work around, then why did they develop the 800 or 2cp? And if a plexi model does the same thing, to the point I can't really tell, then what is the point of having 100s of models?

I am arguing against rabbit holes.
 
Shredder777 said:
OK, this whole argument hinges on the definition of "aggressive" tone. So it can't go anywhere if we disagree on what was meant.

But I think my "unrealistic" argument stands. I bet, if any of you with a Fractal was tasked with getting metallica sounds using the Fractal 1959 plexi, with whatever boosts, amp sims, EQs, IRs are available, you would have no problem getting a sound that was indistinguishable from Metallica 2cp patches.

But I think with real world gear it wouldn't be possible. It would break down somewhere in the chain and be subpar.
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“I think the argument I made up out of whole cloth stands because I do”
 
laxu said:
Which is why it sucks that it's genuinely hard to find examples of alternative ways to dial these things, when almost every clip online goes for that V curve metal tone. Which to be fair, the Mark series does very, very well.

But there's a lot of other flavors in there from really juicy clean channel, to thick blues leads on the MK1 mode of the Mark V, to sludgy overdrive, Plexi-ish crunch...

I've been thinking of buying a used Mesa Mark V 90W as a "just own a nice tube amp" thing. A few head/combo candidates available but I'm still not sure if I want to put down over 2000 euros for one.

I've been revisiting the ML Sound Lab Amped ML5 2.0 plugin since it's afaik the only Mark V model in existence apart from the Fractal, which I no longer own. Plus also trying out NAM captures, NDSP IIC Suite, the IV models on Helix Native and JP2C/IIC/IV models on Hotone...but obviously none of that is a substitute for the real thing.
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Mark amps are pretty strong in the midrange to begin with, so even with a fairly aggressive V on the five band you're still going have plenty of meat in your tone. I run mine with barely any cut on the middle slider, but I'm fairly old school for that sort of thing.
 
iaresee said:
Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm...." :)
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This post makes me go “Hmmmmmm” more than the new Drives!!!

Edit- Just noticed the Improved Tube Driver as well. Don’t we have some kind forum mod code I can invoke here to get a secret PM about secret goings on?
 
Shredder777 said:
Internet forums and real world time commitments limit how well we can express ourselves online. This discussion isn't going anywhere. I've tried unwatching this thread but it still pings my inbox when someone quotes me.

Have a nice day.
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I find most of this falls apart less because of lack of clarity of expression and more because people use forums and comments sections as places to merely spew out a preconceived thought they've held for a long time that a word or two in a headline trigger them to regurgitate, rather than as places to provide thoughtful comments on things they actually read in full...
 
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