Fractal Talk

[JiveTurkey]

Trixter?? That’s a random choice

They're no Firehouse

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Trixter?? That’s a random choice

Not at all random. Firehouse was also a good shout. CC Deville could have been another. There are some hair metal guitar tones that were aggressive sounding, but most of them just seem like smooth sustain to me, where, to the extent there was any aggression, it came from vocals (see Whitesnake) and the constant "I'm shoving my dick in your face" stage moves.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

They're no Firehouse

If we are having a tepid-off, I think Trixter wins? But its a close race, for sure.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If we are having a tepid-off, I think Trixter wins? But its a close race, for sure.

I "like" 2 Firehouse songs the .5 Trixter song I "like". Fair estimation.

 

[deadpool_25]

The Gift of Tone returns!

Weird. Maybe it was a premature epostulation?

Spoiler: Spoiler

It was periphery tones.

 

[Mongillo19]

Can you get Metallica with a Plexi?

@metropolis_4 plays Metallica on the fenders

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Plexi with Tubescreamer was 79/80. JCM800 released in 1981. Mesa 2c was 1983. By late 80s everything was modded or rack preamps. SLO100 was 1987. Then 1992 was 5150.

Can you get Metallica with a Plexi? I think only within the confines of a Fractal box. I mean you would expect the 800 to do it better, even sticking a Metal Zone in front. So why would anyone attempt it with a plexi model if there is an 800? Or a 2C?

I was responding to a claim of "high gain aggressive tone". And I took that to mean metallica level of gain. Because whitesnake was rock.

This is the thing with modeling, and I'm not singling out Fractal, but most models can be hammered into something that gets the same result as the other models. But in the real world this isn't possible. They are unrealistic because they don't impose the same limits as the original gear.

You're just making up your own argument. No-one said "high gain aggressive tone". The initial post you quoted simply said that a boosted plexi could be aggressive. Then you sent us down this historical rabbit hole of nonsense.

You're also viewing "aggressive" through a super narrow window. I find a lot of cleaner crunch tones to be WAY more aggressive sounding than super saturated ones. I find plenty of rock music WAY more aggressive than plenty of metal music. There are plenty of clean(ish) country tones that I find WAY aggressive.

 

[Blix]

Plexi with Tubescreamer was 79/80. JCM800 released in 1981. Mesa 2c was 1983. By late 80s everything was modded or rack preamps. SLO100 was 1987. Then 1992 was 5150.

Can you get Metallica with a Plexi? I think only within the confines of a Fractal box. I mean you would expect the 800 to do it better, even sticking a Metal Zone in front. So why would anyone attempt it with a plexi model if there is an 800? Or a 2C?

I was responding to a claim of "high gain aggressive tone". And I took that to mean metallica level of gain. Because whitesnake was rock.

This is the thing with modeling, and I'm not singling out Fractal, but most models can be hammered into something that gets the same result as the other models. But in the real world this isn't possible. They are unrealistic because they don't impose the same limits as the original gear.

To be pedantic, the JCM800 is not an amp model, it's a series name, the amp model that many seem to call the "JCM800" is the 2203/04 that Marshall has sold since like 1976.. :) The JCM800 version is 99% the same amp.. :)

 

[Mongillo19]

But I think my "unrealistic" argument stands. I bet, if any of you with a Fractal was tasked with getting metallica sounds using the Fractal 1959 plexi, with whatever boosts, amp sims, EQs, IRs are available, you would have no problem getting a sound that was indistinguishable from Metallica 2cp patches.

Honestly idk about that. I think it would take a good amount of tinkering and "modding". Even then, I don't think it would sound the same as a 2cp patch.

Anyway, how about that new firmware update

I might see what happens out of curiosity though

 

[Mongillo19]

I have no dog in this fight. As soon as they develop a new touch UI I will be on the multi-year waiting list.

I still think you should give the FM3 a whirl. If you don't like it, just return it

 

[metropolis_4]

Plexi with Tubescreamer was 79/80. JCM800 released in 1981. Mesa 2c was 1983. By late 80s everything was modded or rack preamps. SLO100 was 1987. Then 1992 was 5150.

Can you get Metallica with a Plexi? I think only within the confines of a Fractal box. I mean you would expect the 800 to do it better, even sticking a Metal Zone in front. So why would anyone attempt it with a plexi model if there is an 800? Or a 2C?

I was responding to a claim of "high gain aggressive tone". And I took that to mean metallica level of gain. Because whitesnake was rock.

This is the thing with modeling, and I'm not singling out Fractal, but most models can be hammered into something that gets the same result as the other models. But in the real world this isn't possible. They are unrealistic because they don't impose the same limits as the original gear.

What exactly is it that you experience in the Plexi models in Fractal that seems unrealistic to you?


You don’t want to talk to me about what you can and can’t cover Metallica on. I’ve performed Metallica covers live with a Telecaster and an AC30

 

[Mongillo19]

Yes, it is top candidate to replace my current mfx, but I'm doing the IR-X thing now. If/when I get bored with that I will get an FM3.

Did you ever try the tone x?

 

[metropolis_4]

Yes, it is top candidate to replace my current mfx, but I'm doing the IR-X thing now. If/when I get bored with that I will get an FM3. Or maybe the next Helix, or...

Wait, you don’t even have a Fractal?

So you’re basing your entire argument that Fractal amp modeling is fake and unrealistic off one person saying a Plexi can sound aggressive, without any personal experience with it?

 

[Blix]

The plexi models doesn't have more gain than the plexis I have owned, very authentic! But yeah wear ear protection with the real ones when everything is at 10

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

a problem with all modelers (hardware, software) I have used, which is they don't impose the same limits as real gear.

How so? As long as you stick to the real world controls and don't dive into the deep parameters, it should be as close to reality as possible. At least with the Fractal stuff that is modeled after real world amps.

 

[metropolis_4]

I never said fake. My argument stems around a problem with all modelers (hardware, software) I have used, which is they don't impose the same limits as real gear.

I am sorry if I waded into a debate I am not qualified for, but the claim of Fractal+Plexi+aggressive set off an alarm. I thought he was talking about metallica style metal with a plexi, which I have no doubt is possible inside the fractal.

I kinda know what you mean, it was a lot more common in older generations of digital modeling than it is today.

My experience with Fractal has been that the amps behave very much how I expect based on my experience with the real amps. Fractal gives a lot of tools to tweak and mod amps the same way you can with physical amps, and I’ve been impressed that these all behave very much how I would expect, and the amps respond in a natural way to these changes. It’s not perfect, but it’s very impressive.

In that Metallica clip I recorded with the Strat into a Twin, for example, the amp modeling behaved and sounded just like I expected it should with the mods I did to it. That was not an unrealistic Twin tone.


To flip your comment around though, why do you want your gear to impose limits on you?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

OK, this whole argument hinges on the definition of "aggressive" tone. So it can't go anywhere if we disagree on what was meant.

But I think my "unrealistic" argument stands. I bet, if any of you with a Fractal was tasked with getting metallica sounds using the Fractal 1959 plexi, with whatever boosts, amp sims, EQs, IRs are available, you would have no problem getting a sound that was indistinguishable from Metallica 2cp patches.

But I think with real world gear it wouldn't be possible. It would break down somewhere in the chain and be subpar.

“I think the argument I made up out of whole cloth stands because I do”

 

[iaresee]

Damn this new firmware really is the Gilmour-edition!

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm...." :)

 

[FractalAudio]

Running things through a modeler has a homogenizing affect on things.

I reject your premise.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I reject your premise.

To be fair, he is using a Zoom G11…