Fractal Talk

[laxu]

Sometime hopefully soon, I’m going to commit to trying to understand the Mesa Mark models. I’m a Mesa fan, but I’ve long avoided the mark amps because I’m completely lost on what to do with them (push/pull stuff, switches, graphic eq, etc). I connected with the recto right away when I had one, but the few times I’ve tried a mark amp I didn’t know what to do with them. I tried a while back with Helix but didn’t get anything I really liked out of it. So many bands I like use Mark amps though, I want to crack the code of getting good sounds out of them.

D

• Gain above halfway.
• Treble at or above halfway.
• Mids and bass at low settings, rarely above halfway. Think if the scale of 0-10 on most amps was squeezed down to 0-5 on the Mark and that works pretty well.
• GEQ to taste. Start by pulling down the 750 Hz band, then figure out the 80 and 6600 Hz and worry about the rest after that. Don't feel forced to go for the V curve either, use your ears.

This works surprisingly well for almost any tone except maybe cleans.

A pretty wide range of cabs can work well with the Mark amps so don't get locked into "it must be a Mesa 4x12 V30 cab".

 

[saarangnarayan]

Dave knows his stuff but I gave up on using Freidman anything in modeler land long ago. Too much Mesa and JVM goodness to waste time with something that is too this or too that.

yeahbsolutely 100%. I spent months trying to dial the BE/HBE models in when Cygnus came around only to realise that the high-gain modern Marshall tones I was searching for are better sought with Splawns and Camerons.

The BE tone stack is almost identical to a Marshall. The reason the BE is smoother is there are several caps sprinkled about that roll off the highs.

The snubber cap is also twice as big as a Marshall which rolls off the highs in the power amp more.

Glad you clarified this, Cliff! The "change the tone stack" trick has never quite worked for me. Sure, it does sound different, but still not as vicious as other Marshall amps. There's a smoothness in the Friedman BE that does not go away no matter what. I think guitars in standard tuning can get away with that smoothness, but the moment you tune lower, it just sounds fuzzy and wooly. Btw, I once asked Dave about his decision to take the feedback off of the speaker jack, and he said that apart from the early (c. 2010?) BEs, none of them are like that any more.

Anyway, here's my periodic request for the Ares-era idealised BE/HBE circuit to be included in the future as a FAS model! (Pretty please?)

 

[deadpool_25]

We always give props to Cliff for his dedication to stellar sounding and incredibly accurate amp modeling. Rightly so.

But I've been watching some videos about the VP4 and it really reinforces just how stunningly good the effects are. I just wanna take a moment to give props to the person/people who are in charge of the effects.

 

[dk_ace]

We always give props to Cliff for his dedication to stellar sounding and incredibly accurate amp modeling. Rightly so.

But I've been watching some videos about the VP4 and it really reinforces just how stunningly good the effects are. I just wanna take a moment to give props to the person/people who are in charge of the effects.

The effects are my favorite thing about the FM9. I always missed them. The seamless switching allowed me to come back to the fold and I’ve been super happy ever since. I was at a rehearsal last week, and at one point I stepped on a big ambient reverb and couldn’t help but geek out on just how dang good it sounded.

Some things bugged me about the delays in earlier units, those are all fixed in the FM9 and now I love the delays too.

Modulations are great, drives and fuzzes, it’s just killer all around.

And then, there’s power and routing flexibility for days… Nothing else I’ve used compares to this thing.

D

 

[Elric]

One thing you can do with the Freidman HBE , I have seen a few guys swap the tonestack in the pre from a Freidman to a plexi .

This will keep the same gain but will open up the top end and get rid of that darker smooth tone Dave Favors

You could also just grab the bright cap value knob in advanced settings and twist it to wherever you want to make a coarse adjustment, too, I'd guess. The Fractal just has so many Marshall variants (and actual Marshalls) that it almost just makes more sense to find your personal fave(s) and not even dive into the model tweaking world, in spite of all that the Fractal can do...

FWIW, I think the Friedman amps (real life and Fractal) sound fantastic and I can get them aggressive enough for my tastes... they are just not a direct Marshall clone in the upper mids and some people would just like a different emphasis. I could easily live with a BE series amp or a JJ as my #1 amp if I had to. So excellent.

I think they are starting to feel 'less boutique' these days now that Friedman's stuff is so accessible.

 

[DrewJD82]

Friedman’s were all I used the first several months I had an AxeFX but it’s rare I use them now, I almost always go for a boosted JCM800 before I’ll go for a Friedman model.

I did try getting pinch harmonics out of one last night and while I never noticed it before, it is pretty tough getting them to ring out on the Friedman’s. Switching over to any other amp it’s not an issue.

 

[la szum]

 

[Elric]

Friedman’s were all I used the first several months I had an AxeFX but it’s rare I use them now, I almost always go for a boosted JCM800 before I’ll go for a Friedman model.

Yeah. The Fractal really taught me to appreciate the traditional Plexi, TBH. A cranked Plexi model with a good boost on it, is just stupid good and aggressive sounding and the Fractal model actually feels sort of 'alive' for lack of a better word. It's nuts. And your ears aren't ringing afterwards.

JCM800 is just the business too. Marshalls are so legit, it's easy to forget how good they are.

 

[la szum]

Yeah. The Fractal really taught me to appreciate the traditional Plexi, TBH. A cranked Plexi model with a good boost on it, is just stupid good and aggressive sounding and the Fractal model actually feels sort of 'alive' for lack of a better word. It's nuts. And your ears aren't ringing afterwards.

JCM800 is just the business too. Marshalls are so legit, it's easy to forget how good they are.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yeah. The Fractal really taught me to appreciate the traditional Plexi, TBH. A cranked Plexi model with a good boost on it, is just stupid good and aggressive sounding and the Fractal model actually feels sort of 'alive' for lack of a better word. It's nuts. And your ears aren't ringing afterwards.

JCM800 is just the business too. Marshalls are so legit, it's easy to forget how good they are.

Whenever I read someone saying something about a lack of immediacy with a modeler, I just want to put a guitar in their hands with one of the Fractal Marshalls loaded up. Or touch sensitivity or volume knob usage, pretty much everything that’s become a trope at this point.

 

[DrewJD82]

If its a real plexi, I wouldn't expect it to have a tight bass at all.

When you boost a plexi, are you talking about 5150 levels of gain? Or early 80s rock level of gain?

IOW, I wouldn't expect a boosted plexi model to get tones that aren't "period correct". When people were playing plexis and boosting with a Tube Screamer (1979), I'm thinking late 70s, early 80s metal. (Angus Young). I wouldn't expect anything heavier or tighter than that.

If you are somehow getting late 80s+ metal out of it, the model can't be that correct. SLO100 and ADA Mp1 were released in 1987 and took it up a notch. I got my first MP1 in 1990.

Yeah, because when I build rigs in real life, I only build them with gear that’s been released in the same 3 years because I’m worried my tone won’t be period correct enough.

This might be one of the lesser thought out digs at a modeler I’ve seen yet. Congratulations.

 

[DrewJD82]

I think you know exactly what I mean. If a 1959 marshall is getting death metal with a boost, the model can't be all that accurate. Nothing wrong with that unless you are a purist, which many Fractal afficianoes seem to be.

You can put a Boss Metal zone in front of a Plexi.

 

[dk_ace]

FWIW, this is my go-to IIC++ preset. These settings will vary depending on the song; sometimes I turn on the Treble Shift and back off the Gain/OD as it adds more gain and it's too much with them both cranked. If I need the guitars to cut a little more I'll usually utilize that Treble Shift before tweaking anything else. Goes without saying, this is definitely a scooped metal tone.

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• Gain above halfway.
• Treble at or above halfway.
• Mids and bass at low settings, rarely above halfway. Think if the scale of 0-10 on most amps was squeezed down to 0-5 on the Mark and that works pretty well.
• GEQ to taste. Start by pulling down the 750 Hz band, then figure out the 80 and 6600 Hz and worry about the rest after that. Don't feel forced to go for the V curve either, use your ears.

This works surprisingly well for almost any tone except maybe cleans.

A pretty wide range of cabs can work well with the Mark amps so don't get locked into "it must be a Mesa 4x12 V30 cab".

Thanks guys! I got just a few minutes to try this stuff tonight, and now I get what I was missing. More experimenting needed, but this may be a new favorite high gain tone for me.

Makes sense now given that it’s a modded fender circuit similar to a dumble. Cut out all the stuff that flubs it up and then add it back dramatically in post. Makes sense, but I never would have cut dramatically enough to get it working on my own without a little nudge.

D

 

[2112]

Fractal have captured the nuances of the real Mark series brilliantly.

Here's a vid with my Mark IV that outlines how I approach them

 

[metropolis_4]

As much as I love so many amp models in the Fractal, I could probably be happy forever with nothing but the 50w Plexi

 

[JoeBfstplk]

• Gain above halfway.
• Treble at or above halfway.
• Mids and bass at low settings, rarely above halfway. Think if the scale of 0-10 on most amps was squeezed down to 0-5 on the Mark and that works pretty well.
• GEQ to taste. Start by pulling down the 750 Hz band, then figure out the 80 and 6600 Hz and worry about the rest after that. Don't feel forced to go for the V curve either, use your ears.

This works surprisingly well for almost any tone except maybe cleans.

A pretty wide range of cabs can work well with the Mark amps so don't get locked into "it must be a Mesa 4x12 V30 cab".

I wish someone had the 150W Black Shadow from the early '80s as an IR....

 

[saarangnarayan]

I wonder if a cheap device like the IR-X could be simply modded by clipping/changing some components?

I would love to know this, too, but I doubt anybody would be brave enough to mess with their $500 preamp just because...

If a 1959 marshall is getting death metal with a boost, the model can't be all that accurate.

Depends on the boost IMO. Also, input EQ is your friend.

 

[dk_ace]

As much as I love so many amp models in the Fractal, I could probably be happy forever with nothing but the 50w Plexi

For me, it’s the jumpered 100 watt plexi if i had to pick just one amp. That and a couple of boosts to push it various other directions and my hands and guitar controls and I can cover a massive amount of ground.

Lately I’m having a lot of fun with the dumble clean model too. That’s mainly because I did the crazy thing I say I’m not gonna do again, again - took a Christmas gig. That model with the master up and the drive pushed to where it’s just crunchy with hard picking and the sag up a little is pretty magical. Push it with an rc booster for mid gain stuff or hit with the nobels set for high gain and you can cover a lot of thick tones.

High gain amp lead tones is where I haven’t been that happy with my stuff. I’ve got a VH4 rhythm sound that I like, but I don’t have much use for it. I keep finding that my plexi tone goosed with the klon model always sounds better for lead work than the vh4. Need to replace that with something else…

D

 

[dk_ace]

Fractal have captured the nuances of the real Mark series brilliantly.

Here's a vid with my Mark IV that outlines how I approach them

I’ll check that one later, thanks! I actually just watched a couple of your other mark videos, that one didn’t come up in the search somehow. Funny thing, I took the advice above to not necessarily do the “v” thing and just use my ears. When I watched your other video I noticed that the graphic eq settings I landed on happened to be very close to yours.

D

 

[saarangnarayan]

Not the best playing but conjured something up just after breakfast today; Is this death metal-y enough?



This is the plexi model with nothing fancy going on in the advanced parameters, apart from a Timmy boosting the front end (screenshots for settings attached). Greenback and Blackback IRs (w/ a 57 and 421 on each) blended for cab tones.