Fractal Talk

[Mongillo19]

Here's One, does anyone know of any modeler that you can just plug in find a preset that will go from Floyd's Sorrow to Van Halen Hear about it later to Black Sabbath Voodoo

Honestly, I feel like any of the top modeling units can do this

 

[James Freeman]

does anyone know of any modeler that you can just plug in find a preset that will go from Floyd's Sorrow to Van Halen Hear about it later to Black Sabbath Voodoo tones and get those tones spot on without any tweaking ?

No such device exists unless you bought it from someone that specifically created these presets and/or tone matched to these specific tone and albums.

 

[Mongillo19]

No such device exists unless you bought it from someone that specifically created these presets and/or tone matched to these specific tone and albums.

I missed the, onboard preset part. You can create the said preset on any device but yeah, idk about finding a factory preset that contains all that

 

[Stone]

I missed the, onboard preset part. You can create the said preset on any device but yeah, idk about finding a factory preset that contains all that

Which as I said will require some level of tweaking

 

[metropolis_4]

Why has our goal become getting instant tones without touching a single control?

Isn’t the hunt, and experimentation, and creation of sounds part of the fun?

 

[Mongillo19]

Why has our goal become getting instant tones without touching a single control?

Isn’t the hunt, and experimentation, and creation of sounds part of the fun?

Probably because if you are coming from physical amps, it's generally easier to get instant tones. The most you tweak is BMT Gain etc.

Pros and cons to both but I think that's why people want instant tones, because that's what they are used to

 

[la szum]

Why has our goal become getting instant tones without touching a single control?

Isn’t the hunt, and experimentation, and creation of sounds part of the fun?

We can blame our current level of cultural conditioning on:

Smartphones.

Free Overnight Shipping.

Insta-cart.

 

[metropolis_4]

Probably because if you are coming from physical amps, it's generally easier to get instant tones. The most you tweak is BMT Gain etc.

Pros and cons to both but I think that's why people want instant tones, because that's what they are used to

Not necessarily, it’s just a little different. How many of us spent tons of time hooking up different combinations of pedals, rolling tubes, swapping out speakers, clipping caps, removing negative feedback loops, etc. with analog gear?

The only difference is that with digital it’s all in one box so I’m not buying as much stuff to experiment with.

 

[la szum]

Twerkers!!

 

[la szum]

Not necessarily, it’s just a little different. How many of us spent tons of time hooking up different combinations of pedals, rolling tubes, swapping out speakers, clipping caps, removing negative feedback loops, etc. with analog gear?

The only difference is that with digital it’s all in one box so I’m not buying as much stuff to experiment with.

I remember owning a crappy SSS Strat and a Peavey Studio Pro 40 in 1980-something and
would never be able to get any kind of tone remotely resembling what my heroes sounded
like. Not even when Guitar For The Practicing Musician would post suggested settings for a
song featured in their magazine that month.

I am glad we have devolved so much to get to this point where we can potentially have option
paralysis.

 

[Stone]

Why has our goal become getting instant tones without touching a single control?

Isn’t the hunt, and experimentation, and creation of sounds part of the fun?

Your Absolutely right 100%, for me using my Fractal is part of the whole musical experience not to mention you get to learn a lot about how effects work, deep amp parameters what they do, and what where and when to use

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I reckon even the guitarists and engineers who recorded those tones would have a hard time recreating them closely with the exact same gear, let alone something in a modeller that’ll be played by anyone with any guitar through any playback system.

Very few people can imitate the sound of someone else. I think if we’re just talking “close enough”, then most modellers can do it already.

IMO while it’s fun to imitate others tones on modellers, it’s setting quite a low bar for what they can be capable of

 

[la szum]

Truth!!

Even the Artists themselves often have different live expectations from the studio experience.

It is definitely not this 1:1 relationship that some might assume in trying to hone in on their
favourite tones.

Says the young lass with fake boobs.

 

[FracKing]

I see a pretty constant trickle of people who ask for advice on how to stop tweaking settings or who say that they sold the Fractal because they spent too much time tweaking settings. The problem is not the device, the problem is the user.

IMO, there are two variants though.
Someone who only learned after using brand F that the depth is not for them may know in advance they will be happier with brand K. It's not necessarily the same as "blaming brand F" - they simply learned who they are.
IOW, some will blame, two or three will not...!

 

[DrewJD82]

Whenever I'm trying to recreate someone else's tone, I consider it my hobby within a hobby. It's certainly been educational, from a tone building standpoint and playing. There's generally some navigating the medium going on when using a tone that isn't your own and as Satch said, "It's never how it sounds" You think it'll feel and sound like one thing when you're playing it, but it rarely does.

 

[2112]

I reckon even the guitarists and engineers who recorded those tones would have a hard time recreating them closely with the exact same gear, let alone something in a modeller that’ll be played by anyone with any guitar through any playback system.

Very few people can imitate the sound of someone else. I think if we’re just talking “close enough”, then most modellers can do it already.

IMO while it’s fun to imitate others tones on modellers, it’s setting quite a low bar for what they can be capable of

THIS

 

[State of Epicicity]

For what it's worth, I've found that altering the resonant peak of my pickups was the biggest thing to get my tone in line; it made tweaking even easier. When testing component values I loaded IRs that match to included speaker impedance curves that are particularly harsh for me (the IRs are harsh, i.e.) and worked to make them easier on the ears.

I think that endless tweaking can sometimes be attributed to a guitar whose pickups aren't playing nice with the instruments natural resonances.

I had found my bridge humbucker pick attack to be so harsh no matter what I did before, so I lowered the resonant peak with a resistor and cap in parallel with each other and with the pickup, and it was like I was playing a different guitar, in a good way! I connected one leg of the resistor and the cap to the hot lead of the pickup, and the other leg of each to ground. You can raise the resonant peak by placing a resistor and cap in parallel with each other but in series with the pickup.

The values I've found to work for me were:

Bridge, to lower the Resonant Peak: 1.5nF||220K
Neck, to raise Resonant Peak 470pF||68k in series with pickup

I used breadboard jumper / DuPont wire to do the testing. I'm still playing around with my wiring and thinking of changing my treble bleed, so I may end up with different values.

 

[Jkist7]

That is the problem with this whole thing. Many modelers create what people think it sounded like, not what it actually sounded like.

Some original EVH guitar stems were posted on YT, don't know if they are still there. They were shrill and trebly AND they were recorded to console/ tape and who knows how many generations of copies and/or eq.

If someone didnt have a Neve console and the best mics, and just stuck an SM57 into their Mackie mixer or 4-track, what would it have sounded like? My guess is that people would put the mic right on dust cap and use the tape loss of high end to balance it out.

I think the approach was largely to just stick mics on it and use EQ/mix on the board, plus neve/api sound of the console to make it work. And then use compressors and reverb tank sparingly.

The coveted EJ sound? How much of that was done at the board?


My opinion of modelers is that they are converging on a "fakeness" that people like based on modern recording techniques and a produced sound.

Fender TMP came out with a 5150 model that people generally didn't like. Someone did an AB shootout with the Fractal 5150 and they were different! So a few months later, Fender rolls out a patch where the 5150 now sounds nearly identical to the AB with the Fractal (and they gave some explanation that I forget.) Was the new 5150 more realistic, or did they tone match it to the Fractal because its what people expect? I think the latter.

If you watch recordings of live EVH shows before the 90s, Ed still has THAT tone. Sure I agree there is definitely some studio magic that adds to the sound, but he was also able to get that sound live. Same with Eric Johnson, he was able to get some pretty magical sounds live. Sure maybe the sound engineer for the venue was adding some special sauce at the mixer, but it wasn't all studio magic.

Also, I own a 5150 and the Fractal model has always sounded really close. The TMP sounded worlds apart with their first iteration. Inexcusable considering they are partners with the EVH brand or whatever.

 

[JiveTurkey]

That is the problem with this whole thing. Many modelers create what people think it sounded like, not what it actually sounded like.

Some original EVH guitar stems were posted on YT, don't know if they are still there. They were shrill and trebly AND they were recorded to console/ tape and who knows how many generations of copies and/or eq.

If someone didnt have a Neve console and the best mics, and just stuck an SM57 into their Mackie mixer or 4-track, what would it have sounded like? My guess is that people would put the mic right on dust cap and use the tape loss of high end to balance it out.

I think the approach was largely to just stick mics on it and use EQ/mix on the board, plus neve/api sound of the console to make it work. And then use compressors and reverb tank sparingly.

The coveted EJ sound? How much of that was done at the board?


My opinion of modelers is that they are converging on a "fakeness" that people like based on modern recording techniques and a produced sound.

Fender TMP came out with a 5150 model that people generally didn't like. Someone did an AB shootout with the Fractal 5150 and they were different! So a few months later, Fender rolls out a patch where the 5150 now sounds nearly identical to the AB with the Fractal (and they gave some explanation that I forget.) Was the new 5150 more realistic, or did they tone match it to the Fractal because its what people expect? I think the latter.

They "fixed it" by adding an impedance curve to the proceedings. In the wrong place.

 

[jellodog]

What mean this?

Him mean what him mean.