Fractal Talk

[JiveTurkey]

 

[mbenigni]

At the very least, the soundman will be dreaming of giving you a Tombstone piledriver after your set.

Or possibly a DirtBike Royale.

If you can have a live rig for clean dry/wet/wet effected/edge of breakup and dirty rhythm/lead/effected lead (all of which is possible with no gap whatsoever on the current FM9 firmware), what more do you need in a single song?

I can only see it being necessary for players who want to dive in and out of massive effects-based "synth" presets. Otherwise, gapless preset switching is a solution to a problem that was already solved better with scenes and channels. Multiple presets per song is likely to become a maintenance and organizational headache, long term.

 

[mikah912]

Or possibly a DirtBike Royale.


I can only see it being necessary for players who want to dive in and out of massive effects-based "synth" presets. Otherwise, gapless preset switching is a solution to a problem that was already solved better with scenes and channels. Multiple presets per song is likely to become a maintenance and organizational headache, long term.

I love, love, LOVE the meticulous synth-y presets on the FM9, and I use them all of the time to add accents and such to songs when recording. But that's the kind of stuff live that you either want a dedicated keyboard player for or to eschew altogether. Sending slow-evolving or pulsating guitar/synth hybrid sounds through a mixing board and PA in a band setting is usually no bueno, and complicating by trying to volume match it against a traditional guitar sound at the same time is even worse.

Even in P&W, the synth pad-y/swell/shimmer-y sounds that guitar players are sometimes encouraged to create usually are barely audible alongside two keyboardists occupying the same frequencies/sonic real estate in the mix.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I love, love, LOVE the meticulous synth-y presets on the FM9, and I use them all of the time to add accents and such to songs when recording. But that's the kind of stuff live that you either want a dedicated keyboard player for or to eschew altogether. Sending slow-evolving or pulsating guitar/synth hybrid sounds through a mixing board and PA in a band setting is usually no bueno, and complicating by trying to volume match it against a traditional guitar sound at the same time is even worse.

Even in P&W, the synth pad-y/swell/shimmer-y sounds that guitar players are sometimes encouraged to create usually are barely audible alongside two keyboardists occupying the same frequencies/sonic real estate in the mix.

 

[jellodog]

How much have you used an FM9? Because I don't really have any gaps in channel switching.

@paisleywookiee IIRC, wasn't the pre-gapless gap something already very small, like 30 milliseconds?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Metro gonna come in and school you all

 

[jellodog]

Anyway, I'm not pro enough to have needed gapless so shruuuuug. I just wanted that sweet sweet triode algorithm tweak

 

[jellodog]

literally go from acoustic tones on his Variax/Helix to modern metal. The sound check took FOREVER.

 

[mbenigni]

Missed this: no, it's a Reverend Reeves Gabrels sig, it's so sweet!
View attachment 17408

Yeah, I Googled the name before I started making fun of it. I was already familiar with the Gabrels' signature guitar; I'd just never heard of it referred to as a Dirty Sanchez Bike Royale before. Love Reverend guitars (and Reeves Gabrels!)

 

[mikah912]

Missed this: no, it's a Reverend Reeves Gabrels sig, it's so sweet!
View attachment 17408

Yeah, I remember the whole story behind this because the first Dirtbike was even more simple with a single bridge pickup. Somehow with just one amp, one pickup and a pedalboard, Reeves Gabrels - known for kazillions of different tones - was able to gig quite well.

Story seemed relevant to this discussion....

 

[la szum]

I know of a couple soundmen in Chicagoland that do not want to work with people that have modelers, because people shifting radically within their tones piss them off. "ooh, I've got a Deluxe Reverb combo, then a Recto into a 4x12, then a Vox into a blue alnico!" It's like herding fucking cats.

Totally! Use a modeller live and you better have your internal shit together. Perceived gaps in switching
might be the least of someone's actual issues.

 

[Orvillain]

No matter what methodology you subscribe to; there is going to need to be thought behind it. I am not against gapless at all. But you are still going to have to think it out.

GODAMNED BOOMERANG!!!!!!!!!

 

[Orvillain]

Oi! Minge socket! I've been playing gapless for 18 years!!!!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Oi! Minge socket! I've been playing gapless for 18 years!!!!

 

[Orvillain]

Mario Van Peebles never had to put up with gappy switching and latency offsets.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Mario Van Peebles never had to put up with gappy switching and latency offsets.

 

[dk_ace]

Thing is, I'm already gaplessly switching on FM9 on the one live preset I feel absolutely needs two different amp/cab combos, via the Multiplexer block.

I guess @dk_ace somehow needs more than two distinct amp/cab combos, although to me switching up sounds that radically in a single live preset is usually a recipe for disaster with volume leveling and such. At the very least, the soundman will be dreaming of giving you a Tombstone piledriver after your set.

If you can have a live rig for clean dry/wet/wet effected/edge of breakup and dirty rhythm/lead/effected lead (all of which is possible with no gap whatsoever on the current FM9 firmware), what more do you need in a single song?

The current gaps are nothing really. I've used the FM3 live without issue and that slight gap doesn't get in the way of anything. And really, with 2 amp blocks in the FM9 you can already do pure gapless amp switching by toggling between them.

How much have you used an FM9? Because I don't really have any gaps in channel switching.

None, had an FM3 for a minute but didn’t like it enough to keep it. When I was looking into how the FM9 works to see if I could switch over everything to it later, I found out about the gaps and someone posted clips of it and I abandoned the idea. Just not something I want to deal with and the gap I heard on those clips was too much for me. It’s trading one set of problems for another, and I’d rather just keep the ones I already have (and their workarounds). You take the gaps out, and the FM9 becomes a cool upgrade to what I have today.

I’m not saying I couldn’t work around the gaps, I just don’t want to because I already have a rig with no audio gaps. Those of you who don’t care about audio gaps, good for you, I don’t care. I used to have to work around that and I enjoy not having to work around it anymore.

And all the stuff about switching amp sounds and causing problems at FOH, I know how to maintain the appropriate place in the mix when I’m making a change. Anyone that doesn’t know how to do that, should definitely not make big switching changes if they don’t want to get muted and/or fired.

D

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

"What does the experience of a Fractal update make you feel like?"
"It makes you feel like experiencing more Fractal updates." - George Carlin

 

[mikah912]

None, had an FM3 for a minute but didn’t like it enough to keep it. When I was looking into how the FM9 works to see if I could switch over everything to it later, I found out about the gaps and someone posted clips of it and I abandoned the idea. Just not something I want to deal with and the gap I heard on those clips was too much for me. It’s trading one set of problems for another, and I’d rather just keep the ones I already have (and their workarounds). You take the gaps out, and the FM9 becomes a cool upgrade to what I have today.

I’m not saying I couldn’t work around the gaps, I just don’t want to because I already have a rig with no audio gaps. Those of you who don’t care about audio gaps, good for you, I don’t care. I used to have to work around that and I enjoy not having to work around it anymore.

And all the stuff about switching amp sounds and causing problems at FOH, I know how to maintain the appropriate place in the mix when I’m making a change. Anyone that doesn’t know how to do that, should definitely not make big switching changes if they don’t want to get muted and/or fired.

D

So are you changing between more than two distinct amp and cab chains?

 

[Stone]

However

On my FM9

Uh

Yea

I'm a believer. Y'all are gonna love it.

Ahh so its going to be Implemented in the FM9 huh