Fractal Talk

[JiveTurkey]

Friedman models for me are straight up contrarian juice. I liked it when I first tried one on the Atomic stuff (still killer for the time) but felt completely over-hyped once it came to the HX stuff and I just don't bother with the FAS ones.

 

[Jarick]

Friedman models for me are straight up contrarian juice. I liked it when I first tried one on the Atomic stuff (still killer for the time) but felt completely over-hyped once it came to the HX stuff and I just don't bother with the FAS ones.

Placater Dirty completely saved the Helix platform for me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Placater Dirty completely saved the Helix platform for me.

At that point ESPECIALLY; I was neck deep in "how in the world is anyone enjoying this thing?"-itis with the HX stuff.

 

[Jarick]

At that point ESPECIALLY; I was neck deep in "how in the world is anyone enjoying this thing?"-itis with the HX stuff.

Absolutely. I was trying to get that tone out of the 2204 Mod or others. The Badonk and Epic were closest but didn't quite have it.

 

[laxu]

Placater Dirty completely saved the Helix platform for me.

Yeah interestingly I like that way more than most Marshall style models in the Helix, but never use the Fractal Friedmans because there's much better Marshall type models available.

 

[mikah912]

The Placater was fine, but I never achieved a better "hot-rodded Marshall" tone on Helix than the one I rolled for myself with early 1.x firmware just sticking the SD9 in front of the JCM800 with a decent Greenback IR or two behind. That preset that I made to showcase that is still one of the highest-rated (perfect 5 stars over 1700 downloads) on Customtone, for whatever that's worth.

As for Fractal, I do think the best models of that ilk are the JVM410 OD1 Orange, FAS Hot Rod, Cornford MK50 and the Cameron Atomica. But that's not to say the others are a slouch. The Splawn Quickrod, CAE3+ and FAS Brown models are very honorable mentions.

 

[iaresee]

I would lose my shit if Fractal added a Friedman Naked (or 2 as there has been different versions made over the years). I like the Fractal Uberschall but it doesn’t really sound or behave much like my real amp (in the way other models do). I wouldn’t mind another version of that in there, most other emulations (STL/Line 6/NDSP) get quite similar to my amp so it should be possible to get close with.

Super Leads cover the AJ Marshall close enough IMO, but it’s kind of odd how overlooked stock Super Bass models are in modellers.

Recto is a massive part of AJ’s tone (especially on the earlier albums), I believe he uses the orange channel. I reckon he must have been one of the first guitarists to use a Rectifier on any recording.

Pretty sure 5150’s have made quite a few of Cantrell’s album blends.

Newer AJ tones seem to use stuff like Rivera, Uberschall, VTM120 (mentioned in interviews).

Saw Tool last night and Adam had two Diezels and his Marshall on stage -- Marshall appeared to be turned off.

Sounded f'ing perfect all night. Huge.

 

[yek]

While I don't agree with Dave's "one dimensional comment", there's always the possibility that he is right about it being darker and then Fractal finds some esoteric detail that fixes that in fw 24, making things brighter.

Seems unlikely. Part of the modeling is measuring the amps, so overall loss of high end, a scooped curve, or whatever, would get noticed.

 

[la szum]

I would lose my shit if Fractal added a Friedman Naked (or 2 as there has been different versions made over the years). I like the Fractal Uberschall but it doesn’t really sound or behave much like my real amp (in the way other models do). I wouldn’t mind another version of that in there, most other emulations (STL/Line 6/NDSP) get quite similar to my amp so it should be possible to get close with.

Super Leads cover the AJ Marshall close enough IMO, but it’s kind of odd how overlooked stock Super Bass models are in modellers.

Recto is a massive part of AJ’s tone (especially on the earlier albums), I believe he uses the orange channel. I reckon he must have been one of the first guitarists to use a Rectifier on any recording.

Pretty sure 5150’s have made quite a few of Cantrell’s album blends.

Newer AJ tones seem to use stuff like Rivera, Uberschall, VTM120 (mentioned in interviews).

View attachment 13702View attachment 13703

Look at all those rebadged Friedmans. Wow!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Look at all those rebadged Friedmans. Wow!

Probably saving it for the $4000 limited edition Friedman AJ100 to top up the bank balance when Maynard CBA again

 

[Bruce]

Fractal is opposed of cocked wah to me, it tends to be a bit scooped with extended high end. Guessing Dave is thinking of Kemper and lumping all modelers together.



Completely agree. Dave is an excellent amp builder and his Tone Talk series has been really good to document a lot of music tech history.

I would be interested to know how much time Dave has spent working with modelers, but I'm guessing not a lot. He knows and loves the tube amp and guitar cab circuit.

I do think the IR-X he just released nails the Friedman tone and does it if not better at least with way less fuss than amp modelers.



To my ears the current Friedman models in Fractal have a slight dip in the mids and a slight push in the highs. I find they need the presence and depth reduced slightly to match up with the IR-X, although I still prefer the IR-X when A/B-ing the amps. I think I generally like other amps such as 5153, Atomica, JVM, CCV, etc better.

I tried to tone match the Fractal to the IR-X and what it came back with was a roll off in the highs and lows, with a bump deep in the bass. I think that may be a mismatch in the speaker impedance curve more than anything.

A bump in the bass something has to be way off. My 3 actual Friedmans ( X, BE and SS) can all run with the bass on 10 and not get woofy. In fact in direct comparison to nearly any other amp in my collection, the bass/low end is a bit anemic overall with great detail and richness in mids and highs.
I also find this to be the case in the FAS model of the BE100 across the board.

 

[saarangnarayan]

I also find this to be the case in the FAS model of the BE100 across the board.

Are you saying the Fractal models of the Friedman are anaemic in the low end?

To me the low end in those models is the problem. It’s too bloated. I’ve heard a couple other people describe Friedman amps as being a bit thin in the lows IRL, and so I thought maybe the reference amp that Cliff has/had might be uncharacteristically dark. But my experience with the IR-X assured me that the Fractal models were pretty accurate.

 

[saarangnarayan]

tried to tone match the Fractal to the IR-X

Which model in the Fractal were you using? IIRC, @2112 stated in his video that BE V3 was the closest out of the box. I do wish Dave would have put the voicing switch on the BE channel.

 

[Jarick]

A bump in the bass something has to be way off. My 3 actual Friedmans ( X, BE and SS) can all run with the bass on 10 and not get woofy. In fact in direct comparison to nearly any other amp in my collection, the bass/low end is a bit anemic overall with great detail and richness in mids and highs.
I also find this to be the case in the FAS model of the BE100 across the board.

Like sub bass, 50-60 Hz. So when the Fractal is trying to tone match from the IR-X, the bass has a mild roll off below around 200 Hz then there's a spike around 50 Hz.

 

[Jarick]

Which model in the Fractal were you using? IIRC, @2112 stated in his video that BE V3 was the closest out of the box. I do wish Dave would have put the voicing switch on the BE channel.

I think V1 and V2 were fairly close, V3 sounded too dark/smooth to me.

 

[Bruce]

Are you saying the Fractal models of the Friedman are anaemic in the low end?

To me the low end in those models is the problem. It’s too bloated. I’ve heard a couple other people describe Friedman amps as being a bit thin in the lows IRL, and so I thought maybe the reference amp that Cliff has/had might be uncharacteristically dark. But my experience with the IR-X assured me that the Fractal models were pretty accurate.

I found the low end to mirror the amps pretty well. I’ll give another listen and report back, this was my initial observation years ago. On the real amps, you can dime the bass and they wont flub out. I had a session back then poorly labeled and forgot which were the model and which was the amp. I couldn’t hear enough difference to be sure I was hearing a difference at all. That is what actually sold me on the AxefxIII. Then a pal of mine loaned me his TC100 and a JP2C. Again, not enough difference to warrant owning those amps. I cant remember the last time I plugged a head in. The only time I play an amp anymore is for product testing, usually for a mic.

 

[dean701]

I think the Dirty Shirley Fractal model is the best of the bunch for the Friedmans but I do like the JCM/JTM thing. It has that high end sparkle. The BE stuff does seem smoother and I can't get the Tube Screamer to sit right. The C45 version is a little easier to contend with. The TS does tighten up the low, low end like I want but it also adds further mid congestion that I can't dial out. The Shirley doesn't get that way. I was sad to hear the loss of the JS410 as that is my favorite of the high gain Marshalls. The JVM models are way too gainy for me on the FM9, although for higher gain stuff the REVV, Recto and 5150 come into play.

 

[laxu]

Are you saying the Fractal models of the Friedman are anaemic in the low end?

To me the low end in those models is the problem. It’s too bloated. I’ve heard a couple other people describe Friedman amps as being a bit thin in the lows IRL, and so I thought maybe the reference amp that Cliff has/had might be uncharacteristically dark. But my experience with the IR-X assured me that the Fractal models were pretty accurate.

I've only tried the Friedman Runt series and the BE50 Deluxe but the low end on those was the opposite of anemic to my ears.

 

[2112]

Did a FW23 overview here now the full release is out

 

[Piing]

The MESA Boogie Subway Blues deserves more affection.
Select the neck humbucker and give it some blues

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