FM9's deep tweaking gets me the closest I've ever gotten to this "unique" JCM800 tone

SwirlyMaple

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I've used a Helix Floor for years and love it. Still do. But I recently got an FM9 just to see how green the grass is on the other side.

Both units have their pros and cons, and honestly I think the Helix is at least as good overall. But the longstanding opinions of Fractal's Marshall models, and the ability to tweak them to really get what you want, has rung true in my first week.

I'm sure you all know the song Under the Bridge by RHCP. We've heard it a million times. But have you ever listened to the isolated guitar and really tried to match it? I have... for years. It's a JCM800, room mic'd, and somehow it sounds clean yet crunchy, tight and punchy, with a bright compressed edge-of-breakup chime on top, and a distinct bassy growl riding underneath. The attack hits hard, like the amp was thumping off the walls of the LA mansion where it was recorded.

I'd be embarrassed to admit the number of hours I've spent trying to get this sound in modelers/plugins. A tonematching IR doesn't cut it, because the dynamics are key. It's become my "how capable is this?" stress test. The FM9 has gotten closer to it than I've ever been able to get. In the cab block, I used a combo of room mic IRs included in the stock cabs (panned L/R), the proximity adjustment, the room reverb sim, and fine-tuned the alignment of the IRs (boy is this nice with the visual graph that overlays both waveforms!). In the amp block, I made heavy use of the speaker impedance/interaction settings, which was key to getting it to sound right: I tweaked the impedance curve, cab resonance, low frequency peak, low frequency resonance, speaker drive, speaker compression, speaker compliance, and speaker thump. Doing this, I was able to match that bassy resonant growl, the breakup in the highs, and the way it sounds like the cab is vibrating with every attack. It's also very touch sensitive and feels great -- highly reactive to playing dynamics.

Anyway, here's a clip. <edit: sorry for the sloppy playing! Recorded it quickly on lunch and now listening back, it could use some cleanup!>
 
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@SwirlyMaple this is the thing, I also use isolated tracks and loopers to get my tones as close as possible and being a long time Helix user I can say nothing comes close to Fractal and once you know the main deep powerful parameters it gets easier
To dial in, you will notice this as time goes bye, I certainly have
 
@SwirlyMaple this is the thing, I also use isolated tracks and loopers to get my tones as close as possible and being a long time Helix user I can say nothing comes close to Fractal and one you know the main deep powerful parameters it gets easier
To dial in, you will notice this as time goes bye, I certainly have
As much as I love my Helix, I honestly can’t see being able to dial in the 800 model like that without adding EQs, compressors, etc. Somebody is free to prove me wrong though.
 
As much as I love my Helix, I honestly can’t see being able to dial in the 800 model like that without adding EQs, compressors, etc. Somebody is free to prove me wrong though.
Yeah man. I tried with all of the above, and used eq-matching IRs too, and it still never sounded quite right. Part of it is the lack of the bright cap in Helix’s JCM800, but those cab interaction settings in the Fractal are huge for really dialing in an amp’s tone and response. It’s the missing piece in the resonance and frequency-dependent dynamics that I just couldn’t capture before.
 
Damn man, that’s impressive

D
Star Trek Applause GIF
 
Yeah man. I tried with all of the above, and used eq-matching IRs too, and it still never sounded quite right. Part of it is the lack of the bright cap in Helix’s JCM800, but those cab interaction settings in the Fractal are huge for really dialing in an amp’s tone and response. It’s the missing piece in the resonance and frequency-dependent dynamics that I just couldn’t capture before.
Have you tweaked the Mic pre amp settings in the cab block, ive found those parameters to be the icing on the Fractal cake

:guiness
 
@SwirlyMaple this is the thing, I also use isolated tracks and loopers to get my tones as close as possible and being a long time Helix user I can say nothing comes close to Fractal and once you know the main deep powerful parameters it gets easier
To dial in, you will notice this as time goes bye, I certainly have
For sure. I’m now understanding why Fractal users talked so much about the importance of speaker impedance curves. Even with the same IR, it can make the amp’s response characteristics completely different. And all the other preamp and poweramp parameters you can change are hugely helpful too. The more I dig into it all, the more I’m enjoying it.

I still think the Helix sounds great. But I’m a tinkerer at heart and love being able to play with these things on a deeper level.
 
Have you tweaked the Mic pre amp settings in the cab block, ive found those parameters to be the icing on the Fractal cake

:guiness
Yes indeed! For a lot of older recordings, the tape they recorded them on plays a big role in the sound. I was using Retro Reel in Helix to mimic this, which does an awesome job, but having it built right into the cab block with Fractal is noice. Tape sims, tube and solid state pre-amps, all right there in the block. Love it.
 
Yes indeed! For a lot of older recordings, the tape they recorded them on plays a big role in the sound. I was using Retro Reel in Helix to mimic this, which does an awesome job, but having it built right into the cab block with Fractal is noice. Tape sims, tube and solid state pre-amps, all right there in the block. Love it.
Don't know if you saw this one

 
I really am surprised you got that with a single guitar track like that in one box. Please Cliff, get gapless switching and the new spring reverb into the Fm9. I want to try this myself….

D
 
For fucks sake someone get @James Freeman an FAS something or other already
If I decided not to keep mine, I was going to offer him a sizable good-buddy discount on it. But I don't think I'll be parting with it any time soon ;)

(I'm not sure if it would be healthy for James to have one. Can you imagine how many measurements and graphs he'd be churning out? We'd need a new TGF server just to contain all the analyses of poweramp characteristics and impedance curves.)
 
If I decided not to keep mine, I was going to offer him a sizable good-buddy discount on it. But I don't think I'll be parting with it any time soon ;)

(I'm not sure if it would be healthy for James to have one. Can you imagine how many measurements and graphs he'd be churning out? We'd need a new TGF server just to contain all the analyses of poweramp characteristics and impedance curves.)
he won't tell you his shipping address :bag :grin
 
It will be interesting to see if any potential "near-future" Helix 2203 gets you anywhere near as close!
That's the plan! If I use the same IRs, I think it could be a pretty competitive battle, assuming Line 6 nails the "possible" 2203/2204 update. And I suspect they will, based on the quality of their recent models in other firmware updates.
 
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