Ok, time to solve this problem

[Boudoir Guitar]

Well sure, and my experience was that the fender FR12 made a close mic’d IR sound more like an amplifier, regardless of what a couple guys in this thread say, who apparently have no personal experience with the FR12, but have a heavy bias against them for whatever reason.

I don't care one way or another about the FR12, but will note that what is often seen in the "so much better than studio monitors" testimonials (about any monitor - not just FR12) is a person comparing how it feels to play a modeler through a pair of speakers sitting on a desk at ear height, 4 feet away from, and pointed straight at, their head to the experience using a single bigger speaker sitting on (or a lot closer to) the floor (often further away; often not pointed as directly at ear holes; often at louder volumes (very often at much louder volumes)). In such a scenario it is impossible to know if the "more like an amp" experience is due to a change in technology, or if it is simply due to the obvious-but-not-obvious notion that when you put an "FRFR" monitor in the same location you tend to put an amp played at a similar volume to how you play an amp, you are more likely to have a more amp like experience than if you put an "FRFR" monitor in a place(s) that you would never consider putting an actual amp and played at lower volumes than you typically play an actual amp.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I've never heard a keyboard player complaining that playing his piano samples through his stage amp does not feel like his grand piano at the concert hall. He just adds a Hall Reverb
Maybe they are more technically clever than most guitarists. Many of us are full of esoteric BS about tone, or get option paralysis whith more than 3 knobs, or complain about a bright bright pickup and ask for a pickup replacement reccomendation without even touching the guitar's tone knob, blaming the type of wood, the fretboard material, nitro vs lacker, or the oil finish on the neck.

That’s because pianists don’t lurk here. Look at the price difference between a Nord Stage and a Casiotone

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

Oh yeah!

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I've never heard a keyboard player complaining that playing his piano samples through his stage amp does not feel like his grand piano at the concert hall. He just adds a Hall Reverb
Maybe they are more technically clever than most guitarists. Many of us are full of esoteric BS about tone, or get option paralysis whith more than 3 knobs, or complain about a bright bright pickup and ask for a pickup replacement reccomendation without even touching the guitar's tone knob, blaming the type of wood, the fretboard material, nitro vs lacker, or the oil finish on the neck.

Know very many E pianists? I know a few and they'll talk your ear off about things us guitarists dgaf about. I need to dig up that thread I was reading where a couple of pianists were deep in the weeds about sampled vs modeled piano sounds

 

[Alex Kenivel]

 

[metropolis_4]

I really couldn’t care less about the technical details and nuances of “"FRFR"”. I just want something to sound good when I’m playing through it

I don’t even care about graphs!

 

[OrganicZed]

As long as you're not married to the tactile controls that a traditional amp will provide for in the moment tweaking, I think you'd be well served by getting a 1x12 cabinet that you like and pairing that with your Fractal and a solid state power amplifier. If you have a microphone or two that you like then you can capture IRs of your exact cabinet and use those for your live sound to make it more seamless when dialing in your tone for both use cases.

I was playing my Axe-FX III into my 4x12 cabs yesterday and it is a really satisfying experience. Even at lower volumes, real guitar cabinets just hit differently than my studio monitors or my "FRFR" cabs.

 

[la szum]

I really couldn’t care less about the technical details and nuances of “""FRFR""”. I just want something to sound good when I’m playing through it

I don’t even care about graphs!

I'd suggest this as an easy option to try. Just an EQ curve that you can use on the Global Output EQ
that I have a feeling may help "correct" some of the glaring sonic issues with the Alto.

Flattening the headrush curve

The headrush 108 is a popular and cheap way to monitor fractal rigs. But it is far from "flat". Flat is relative to a lot of things. This thread aims to tame the worst deviations and make the critter behave a little better. I picked up a miniDsp UMIC-1 and REW software on the Mac using the FM3...

forum.fractalaudio.com

Obviously, not the same speaker, but I wonder if a lot of the Headrush/Alto FRFRs have similar
issues.

The biggest bonus here is it is both free, and easy, to try.

 

[Sedaxel]

As long as you're not married to the tactile controls that a traditional amp will provide for in the moment tweaking, I think you'd be well served by getting a 1x12 cabinet that you like and pairing that with your Fractal and a solid state power amplifier. If you have a microphone or two that you like then you can capture IRs of your exact cabinet and use those for your live sound to make it more seamless when dialing in your tone for both use cases.

I was playing my Axe-FX III into my 4x12 cabs yesterday and it is a really satisfying experience. Even at lower volumes, real guitar cabinets just hit differently than my studio monitors or my ""FRFR"" cabs.

This is my opinion too.

Just a guitar cab, or a guitar amp with FX loop (for using it as a poweramp + cab), be it SS or tube. Whatever you like more. Modeller into the return of the amp, without IR of course.

And then, a personal IR of your own cab... Which maybe won't be the best sounding IR in the world... But it will surely be the most similar to your rig, in order to send that signal to FOH while you enjoy your guitar amp on stage.

 

[creative360]

Lots of experience here with holy grail tubes and analog, top tier digital, trendiest (among guitarists) and expensive “"FRFR"”, and even a bunch of cheapo super-musical ephemera along the way.

One thing I’ve noticed is how a musician knowing everything or how everything works or what’s right or best .. this is never a guarantee that there’s good music on the way. And time after time, it’s the happily delusional quirkmeister with his offbeat decidedly wrong rig who slays.

If tone-questing serves nothing else other than to redirect our self-loathing when practice or inspiration is momentarily not cutting it, then it’s worth it.

Personally, keeping things simple and vintage sounding and when in doubt reducing reverb and delay before changing anything else is what usually works for me.

But can we ever really trust a guitarist who never ever wants to sound like a school of fish swimming by or some other such Rosenwinkelesque silliness? .. Keep it fun. Down with gear shaming!

 

[Byrdman]

This has been driving me crazy with digital and last night was the final straw.

Here’s what I need to figure out:

When I play a show, during the performances I’m typically using IEMs and everything goes direct. But before that there are a few rehearsals where we’re set up in a room with no PA.

I need a better way to amplify myself during rehearsals. Ideally using the same sounds I’ll be using for the performances.



""FRFR"" sucks. It doesn’t work when I’m playing with other instruments that aren’t coming through a PA. I get buried in the mix and I’m somehow both too loud and too quiet at the same time. The frequency response is all wrong and it just doesn’t sit right in the mix.

Thinking about maybe going with a power amp and speaker cab? But I don’t want to have to dial in tones for both rehearsal and the show…


This is where I miss tube amps. It was so much easier to reach over and turn a couple knobs while playing to account for the room.

I’ve even thought this is where a Tone Master amp would make a lot of sense. Turn on the speakers for rehearsal, turn them off and plug direct at the shows. Same amp, same tones. The only problem is that I’m stuck with a Fender amp all the time and they’re not usually my favorite choice. And then I still need to figure out how to handle all the acoustic instruments

Maybe something like one of those new Fender powered cabs?

What would you do?

Get a new tube amp, that always feels better for a while

 

[AlbertA]

Lots of experience here with holy grail tubes and analog, top tier digital, trendiest (among guitarists) and expensive “""FRFR""”, and even a bunch of cheapo super-musical ephemera along the way.

One thing I’ve noticed is how a musician knowing everything or how everything works or what’s right or best .. this is never a guarantee that there’s good music on the way. And time after time, it’s the happily delusional quirkmeister with his offbeat decidedly wrong rig who slays.

If tone-questing serves nothing else other than to redirect our self-loathing when practice or inspiration is momentarily not cutting it, then it’s worth it.

Personally, keeping things simple and vintage sounding and when in doubt reducing reverb and delay before changing anything else is what usually works for me.

But can we ever really trust a guitarist who never ever wants to sound like a school of fish swimming by or some other such Rosenwinkelesque silliness? .. Keep it fun. Down with gear shaming!

Then there's folks like Andy Timmons that do both, get an awesome tone and do great music, which is

 

[jay mitchell]

I really couldn’t care less about the technical details and nuances of “""FRFR""”. I just want something to sound good when I’m playing through it

This statement contains three assumptions:

1. The folks who have gone to the trouble to learn how things actually work - "the technical details and nuances" - don't also "want something to sound good."
2. Getting "something to sound good" is not facilitated by an understanding of the "technical details and nuances."
3. A simple recommendation for an alternative monitor from folks on a web forum could possibly be a magic solution.

All are false.

You are clearly not happy with the way your (admittedly low-budget) monitor sounds in rehearsals. Yet, when you are performing with IEMs and a PA, you are apparently happy with your sounds. That leads to the following:

1. No monitor will ever produce anything like the sound that you hear in IEMs or cans. That's fundamental. If you're dialed in for IEMs, you'll have added something to create artificial ambience to replace the natural ambience that an acoustic space provides, as well as EQ to account for the specific responses your IEMs create in your ears.
2. If you insist on using your live presets in rehearsals, you're really gonna need to use IEMs there, along with amplification so the others can hear you. That may or may not require that you upgrade your monitor. It depends on how highly you prioritize what other folks hear of your sound in rehearsals.

 

[metropolis_4]

This statement contains two assumptions:

1. The folks who have gone to the trouble to learn how things actually work - "the technical details and nuances" - don't also "want something to sound good."
2. Getting "something to sound good" is not facilitated by an understanding of the "technical details and nuances."
3. A simple recommendation for an alternative monitor from folks on a web forum could possibly be a magic solution.

All are false.

You are clearly not happy with the way your(admittedly low-budget) monitor sounds in rehearsals. Yet, when you are performing with IEMs and a PA, you are apparently happy with your sounds. That leads to the following:

1. No monitor will ever produce anything like the sound that you hear in IEMs or cans. That's fundamental. If you're dialed in for IEMs, you'll have added something to create artificial ambience to replace the natural ambience that an acoustic space provides, as well as EQ to account for the specific responses your IEMs create in your ears.
2. If you insist on using your live presets in rehearsals, you're really gonna need to use IEMs there, along with amplification so the others can hear you. That may or may not require that you upgrade your monitor. It depends on how highly you prioritize what other folks hear of your sound in rehearsals.

That’s good advice.

Maybe I could have phrased that better, those assumptions were not my intent.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the science behind how these things work, and for the people who have dedicated their time to studying and researching them to give us musicians the best tools possible.

What I meant is I have no personal desire to be one of those people. But I’m grateful there are people out there who do

I have enough of a basic understanding of what frequencies I want to hear (and what I don’t want to hear) to get by.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think the biggest difference is that when I’m in rehearsal I’m hearing the sound of a mic’d speaker in another room coming through a PA speaker, and that doesn’t sit right with all the other instruments that I’m hearing naturally in the room.

But in performances it works because I’m hearing everything through mics through the system so it all sounds congruent.

Probably isn’t a great way to solve that problem other than using an amp for rehearsals and ditching the concept of using the same rig and tones for both

 

[jay mitchell]

Then there's folks like Andy Timmons that do both,

I've seen Andy play a number of times in the past decade and discussed his rigs with him on occasion. Truth be known, he's much more an amp and pedals guy than anything else. There's another guitarist here in DFW - Noel Johnston - who is equally comfortable with modeling/monitors and amps/pedals. Noel uses a kpa (captures his own profiles, too), several boutique tube amps, and various Collings guitars. He's got world-class chops as well.

 

[Achilles]

Probably isn’t a great way to solve that problem other than using an amp for rehearsals and ditching the concept of using the same rig and tones for both

Get a splitter and send one half to the modeler/PA and the other to a little 1x10 combo sitting at your feet.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Probably isn’t a great way to solve that problem other than using an amp for rehearsals and ditching the concept of using the same rig and tones for both

Ime, when you match your cabsim a bit to your actual speaker, and use a global eq on your monitor feed (if needed at all), using the same stuff works perfectly fine.

Even IF using different set of sounds could lead to better results, in my mind the price of “managing/getting used to” two sets of sounds is a higher price to pay.