FM9's deep tweaking gets me the closest I've ever gotten to this "unique" JCM800 tone

[timbuck3]

I've used a Helix Floor for years and love it. Still do. But I recently got an FM9 just to see how green the grass is on the other side.

Both units have their pros and cons, and honestly I think the Helix is at least as good overall. But the longstanding opinions of Fractal's Marshall models, and the ability to tweak them to really get what you want, has rung true in my first week.

I'm sure you all know the song Under the Bridge by RHCP. We've heard it a million times. But have you ever listened to the isolated guitar and really tried to match it? I have... for years. It's a JCM800, room mic'd, and somehow it sounds clean yet crunchy, tight and punchy, with a bright compressed edge-of-breakup chime on top, and a distinct bassy growl riding underneath. The attack hits hard, like the amp was thumping off the walls of the LA mansion where it was recorded.

I'd be embarrassed to admit the number of hours I've spent trying to get this sound in modelers/plugins. A tonematching IR doesn't cut it, because the dynamics are key. It's become my "how capable is this?" stress test. The FM9 has gotten closer to it than I've ever been able to get. In the cab block, I used a combo of room mic IRs included in the stock cabs (panned L/R), the proximity adjustment, the room reverb sim, and fine-tuned the alignment of the IRs (boy is this nice with the visual graph that overlays both waveforms!). In the amp block, I made heavy use of the speaker impedance/interaction settings, which was key to getting it to sound right: I tweaked the impedance curve, cab resonance, low frequency peak, low frequency resonance, speaker drive, speaker compression, speaker compliance, and speaker thump. Doing this, I was able to match that bassy resonant growl, the breakup in the highs, and the way it sounds like the cab is vibrating with every attack. It's also very touch sensitive and feels great -- highly reactive to playing dynamics.

Anyway, here's a clip. <edit: sorry for the sloppy playing! Recorded it quickly on lunch and now listening back, it could use some cleanup!>

sweet tone...Crispy with no squirrels

 

[TSJMajesty]

Well Cliff just added another JCM800 to the Axe! Shouldn't be too long before you get it in the 9 (& 3.)

 

[DrewJD82]

Dunno how I missed this thread before. Don’t apologize about the playing, Swirley, that song is butchered regularly by guitarists across the world and you’re not one of them. That tune was my base tone for a cover band I was in a couple years ago and you got the exact thing I was chasing; the attack. I think I went with a SPL or something, I definitely wasn’t trying to NAIL the tone, but that was where I wanted the ballpark built. JTM45/Bassman is too soft in the initial attack but gets too wooly when you get the tubes to distort, kinda the opposite direction of the UTB tone.

Tight, tight work, man!!

Funny, I was so fucking sick of that song, like there was no charm left in it, I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing it again. Then I learned it and had so much appreciation for the guitar part that it was like clearing out the cache. Nailing that intro is a bitch. Hahahha I dunno if Frusciante overdubbed some parts in the original or fingerpicked it, but he doesn’t play it the same way live!

 

[EOengineer]

I’ve always loved the UTB tone as well. Isn’t the CE-1 preamp part of the recipe there too?

 

[shanesiegle]

I always thought is was a preamp straight into the board? Having said that, that sounds dead on.

 

[621]

Sounds good, bro! Would you mind sharing your preset ?

 

[la szum]

Dang! That is killer, SM! Love those tones. 800s make great "clean" amps---provided you roll your volume
back on the guitar, or use some low-output pickups. Or both!

Really been almost impossible to get those kinds of "clean" tones with anything other than an 800. Something
really great in the top-end happening there that is not Fender top-end. Love it!

Is UTB a Jaguar?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Funny, I was so fucking sick of that song, like there was no charm left in it, I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing it again. Then I learned it and had so much appreciation for the guitar part that it was like clearing out the cache. Nailing that intro is a bitch. Hahahha I dunno if Frusciante overdubbed some parts in the original or fingerpicked it, but he doesn’t play it the same way live!

Ha, same. But a few years ago I happened to come across the unmixed guitar tracks for the whole BSSM album, and something about it embedded itself in my brain. His playing on that album sounds relatively simple until you hear the guitar by itself and try to emulate it. Those stark funky clean tones leave nothing to hide behind.

I’ve always loved the UTB tone as well. Isn’t the CE-1 preamp part of the recipe there too?

According to a prior tech of his, some interviews around that time, and my own personal belief from listening to the original guitar tracks -- I don't think the CE-1 is on Under the Bridge, or maybe on any of the BSSM album. He had a CE-1 at the time, but supposedly it was in for repair and thus the stereo chorus used was a DOD FX65 instead. I tend to believe that, because if you listen to the original guitar tracks for UTB, the chorus-ey outro has modulation on both the right and left tracks, while the CE-1 only modulates one channel in stereo mode.

But for sure, pretty much all of his later tones, from Californication onward, have either the CE-1 pre-amp (and its chorus) in the chain. It has a thicker, darker sound which is pretty recognizable.

I always thought is was a preamp straight into the board? Having said that, that sounds dead on.

Some of the overdubs on that album are, apparently. I wouldn't be too shocked if the intro to UTB was also straight into the desk, because it has a very different tone than the rest of the track, and is super compressed -- way more compression than you'd get with a DynaComp pedal like he was using with the amps for that album.

That album is a mix of tones -- some are the bright cleans of a JCM in stereo with a darker bass amp (possibly his Marshall Major or maybe a Super Bass), while some of the overdubs and solos are just a cheap Fender H.O.T. practice amp made the same year they recorded the album.

Sounds good, bro! Would you mind sharing your preset ?

Sure thing! I'll probably work on it a bit more to get it even closer and also add the chorus to the preset for the outro, but I'll grab the one I used in the shared track off my FM9 and post it here shortly. Edit: @621 here ya go https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oftd...13.2.syx?rlkey=11ukotr1p5dz8vlmgdv6ccvok&dl=0

Is UTB a Jaguar?

Great question! Nope, it's almost entirely Strat. He did use that green Jaguar you see in the music video throughout the album though, mostly as overdubs and doubled parts. I'm pretty sure it is used in UTB's overdubs: in the intro, the sustained notes on the higher strings sound like a Jag overdub, and the Maj7 chord before each chorus also has a very bright double that sounds like a Jag too.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

For anyone curious, here is the original unmixed guitar from Under the Bridge. It's been EQ-carved to slot it into the mix, but still an interesting listen if you're into this stuff.

 

[621]

Sure thing! I'll probably work on it a bit more to get it even closer and also add the chorus to the preset for the outro, but I'll grab the one I used in the shared track off my FM9 and post it here shortly. Edit: @621 here ya go https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3z2a...13.1.syx?rlkey=tus5w7nooot95y1if0yz7hurb&dl=1

Thanks man, I loaded this preset on my FM3, but the amp and cab are missing, maybe it's not compatible to load an FM9 preset into FM3

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Thanks man, I loaded this preset on my FM3, but the amp and cab are missing, maybe it's not compatible to load an FM9 preset into FM3

View attachment 14510

Oh that's weird. Hmmm. Let me try re-importing it to mine and see what it does. If all else fails I'll screenshot the settings :)

Edit: it's working here on my FM9 after re-importing. Very strange. Stand by, I'll think of something.

Edit edit: Oh!!! I know what's wrong. Due to some earlier editing, those blocks are ID'd as Amp 2 and Cab 2 even though they're the only ones in the preset. I'll fix it, one sec!

 

[luckymethod]

I've used a Helix Floor for years and love it. Still do. But I recently got an FM9 just to see how green the grass is on the other side.

Both units have their pros and cons, and honestly I think the Helix is at least as good overall. But the longstanding opinions of Fractal's Marshall models, and the ability to tweak them to really get what you want, has rung true in my first week.

I'm sure you all know the song Under the Bridge by RHCP. We've heard it a million times. But have you ever listened to the isolated guitar and really tried to match it? I have... for years. It's a JCM800, room mic'd, and somehow it sounds clean yet crunchy, tight and punchy, with a bright compressed edge-of-breakup chime on top, and a distinct bassy growl riding underneath. The attack hits hard, like the amp was thumping off the walls of the LA mansion where it was recorded.

I'd be embarrassed to admit the number of hours I've spent trying to get this sound in modelers/plugins. A tonematching IR doesn't cut it, because the dynamics are key. It's become my "how capable is this?" stress test. The FM9 has gotten closer to it than I've ever been able to get. In the cab block, I used a combo of room mic IRs included in the stock cabs (panned L/R), the proximity adjustment, the room reverb sim, and fine-tuned the alignment of the IRs (boy is this nice with the visual graph that overlays both waveforms!). In the amp block, I made heavy use of the speaker impedance/interaction settings, which was key to getting it to sound right: I tweaked the impedance curve, cab resonance, low frequency peak, low frequency resonance, speaker drive, speaker compression, speaker compliance, and speaker thump. Doing this, I was able to match that bassy resonant growl, the breakup in the highs, and the way it sounds like the cab is vibrating with every attack. It's also very touch sensitive and feels great -- highly reactive to playing dynamics.

Share the preset please

 

[SwirlyMaple]

@621 Here ya go, should work now:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oftd...13.2.syx?rlkey=11ukotr1p5dz8vlmgdv6ccvok&dl=1

@luckymethod

I used an American Original 60s strat, neck pickup, tone and volume both on 10. It has the stock Pure Vintage '65 pickups in it, but any strat neck pickup should get close with a little tweaking of volume and tone.

 

[luckymethod]

dunno if Frusciante overdubbed some parts in the original or fingerpicked it, but he doesn’t play it the same way live!

He sounded like ducking garbage both times I heard him live, I lost all respect I had for him as guitar player to the point that I wonder if it was really him playing on the records.

 

[621]

@621 Here ya go, should work now:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oftd...13.2.syx?rlkey=11ukotr1p5dz8vlmgdv6ccvok&dl=1

@luckymethod

I used an American Original 60s strat, neck pickup, tone and volume both on 10. It has the stock Pure Vintage '65 pickups in it, but any strat neck pickup should get close with a little tweaking of volume and tone.

can confirm , now it's loaded on FM3 , just need a little 'block arrangement'

before

After

 

[SwirlyMaple]

He sounded like ducking garbage both times I heard him live, I lost all respect I had for him as guitar player to the point that I wonder if it was really him playing on the records.

Once he got past the near-death drug years, he's a great live guitarist. I saw them a year and a half ago and John, Flea and Chad all sounded fantastic together. One of the best concerts of my life.

 

[the-trooper]

I lost all respect I had for him as guitar player to the point that I wonder if it was really him playing on the records.

No idea who played what, but consider that all people have bad days, get tired, get tired of doing the same thing (even if it's playing their songs), have health problems...

 

[SwirlyMaple]

can confirm , now it's loaded on FM3 , just need a little 'block arrangement'

before
View attachment 14511

After
View attachment 14512

Nice! That chorus I threw in there is similar to the outro chorus. Could use more refinement but it'll work for now.

 

[luckymethod]

No idea who played what, but consider that all people have bad days, get tired, get tired of doing the same thing (even if it's playing their songs), have health problems...

Nah bro. There are bad days and there's whatever the fuck that was. Highly unprofessional, and I'm not the only one that thinks that of RHCP.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Nah bro. There are bad days and there's whatever the fuck that was. Highly unprofessional, and I'm not the only one that thinks that of RHCP.

Did you actually see him live, or are you referring to the infamous clips of when he was intentionally sabotaging their performances in the early 90s because he was mad at Kiedis and hated their fame? (E.g. the SNL performance)