Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

By my quick research there have been 17,638 different Fender Amp Models released over the years, and these 17,638 "all different" Fender Amps all deliver 3 variations of the same clean tone.

" I'm recording an album ..... get me 26 different Fender Amps for my clean tones " said no-one ever.

Just because you don’t get the nuances between them doesn’t mean others don’t.

Someone who spent their life playing jazz standards might think all high gain sounds the same and there’s no reason for more than one high gain modern amp to exist. Someone who spent their life playing metal would probably disagree
 
Someone who spent their life playing jazz standards might think all high gain sounds the same and there’s no reason for more than one high gain modern amp to exist. Someone who spent their life playing metal would probably disagree

While I agree on this in general, I think it's pretty clear that a whole lot of people are continously asking for new amps just because they can, not because they'd actually make use of it. It's pretty much a collecting thing (fwiw, I'm explicitely not pointing my finger at anyone in particular).
Add to this that the cab/IR you're using is pretty much just as important.

Having said that, I use clean tones a whole lot, out of the Helix universe I usually grab the new-ish Super Reverb, but in case someone took that away I'd grab the Princess and would likely be as happy. And in case someone took that away as well, I'd likely just grab the clean MkIV channel and be (at least almost) as happy.
 
Adding “convolution” verbs as if they’re distinct models seems a bit…. of a stretch? I don’t mind convolution for certain reverb sounds but the names of the IR’s sound more like they should really be done properly with algorithms.

Similarly, JTM45 and Bluesbreaker as separate models is quite amusing. Still, good they’re adding stuff and filling in the gaps.
 
While I agree on this in general, I think it's pretty clear that a whole lot of people are continously asking for new amps just because they can, not because they'd actually make use of it. It's pretty much a collecting thing (fwiw, I'm explicitely not pointing my finger at anyone in particular).
Add to this that the cab/IR you're using is pretty much just as important.

Having said that, I use clean tones a whole lot, out of the Helix universe I usually grab the new-ish Super Reverb, but in case someone took that away I'd grab the Princess and would likely be as happy. And in case someone took that away as well, I'd likely just grab the clean MkIV channel and be (at least almost) as happy.

But since you do have access to all three I’m sure you can see times when you would choose one over the other.

I would choose the Super Reverb when I want a little more bite and midrange push, the Princeton when I want a warmer sound with a softer attack, and the MkIV when I want a stronger attack and more clarity/definition
 
While I agree on this in general, I think it's pretty clear that a whole lot of people are continously asking for new amps just because they can, not because they'd actually make use of it. It's pretty much a collecting thing (fwiw, I'm explicitely not pointing my finger at anyone in particular).
Add to this that the cab/IR you're using is pretty much just as important.

Having said that, I use clean tones a whole lot, out of the Helix universe I usually grab the new-ish Super Reverb, but in case someone took that away I'd grab the Princess and would likely be as happy. And in case someone took that away as well, I'd likely just grab the clean MkIV channel and be (at least almost) as happy.

I actually don't fault people for this. When you spend $1500+, you're expecting more choices and a better UX and build quality than stuff that costs half or a third of the price. You can absolutely get most types of sound with different sorts of amps. EQ and IRs - there's not a single path there.

I think what may be trickier to nail is getting a certain type of feel or response, especially if you're familiar with the missing amp in real life.

But I don't even think Fender faults people for demanding lots of amps. They planned for this, and their cadence of amps added is faster than pretty much anyone else doing modeling these days.
 
Depends on the implementation. A JTM45 and a Bluesbreaker aren’t the same. There are some differences, whether they modeled that or not is the question
Unless I’m missing something, it’s just the tremolo circuit isn’t it? I’m not aware of any of the rest of the circuit being different.

Maybe they modelled 2 distinct amps and measured each component so there’s could be subtle variation.

and I guess the Bluesbreaker would be with the poweramp driving a 2x12 for the impedance behaviours, although presumably that’s just an EQ thing here.

It’s basically JTM45, JTM45 with Tremolo
 
Unless I’m missing something, it’s just the tremolo circuit isn’t it? I’m not aware of any of the rest of the circuit being different.

From what I understand the tremolo adds some subtle differences to the sound. Even when it’s off.

Do you know if they modeled the Bluesbreaker with the tremolo? With the way TMP represents amps in the UI I would expect the model to have the tremolo with the ability to toggle it on/off and hear that integrated into the amp the way it is on the real amp

Maybe they modelled 2 distinct amps and measured each component so there’s could be subtle variation.

and I guess the Bluesbreaker would be with the poweramp driving a 2x12 for the impedance behaviours, although presumably that’s just an EQ thing here.

That would be the “Depends on implementation” part
 
Unless I’m missing something, it’s just the tremolo circuit isn’t it? I’m not aware of any of the rest of the circuit being different.

Maybe they modelled 2 distinct amps and measured each component so there’s could be subtle variation.

and I guess the Bluesbreaker would be with the poweramp driving a 2x12 for the impedance behaviours, although presumably that’s just an EQ thing here.

It’s basically JTM45, JTM45 with Tremolo

The tremolo influences the rest of the circuit so it is a bit different. Same with the Fender BF amps with and without Trem/vib.
 
The tremolo influences the rest of the circuit so it is a bit different. Same with the Fender BF amps with and without Trem/vib.
As far as a model goes though, there’s surely going to be a hella lot of copy and paste going on in that circuit. You can basically start with one and tweak a little to get the other. Someone will have to demo them to see how similar the models are in the unit I guess.
 
But since you do have access to all three I’m sure you can see times when you would choose one over the other.

Well, not really. Ever since the Super Reverb was added, I haven't used anything else anymore. I think the controls behave nicely for my needs and that was pretty much it. Soundwise, the differences are all within such a small range that the used cab/IR is much more important for me.

I think what may be trickier to nail is getting a certain type of feel or response, especially if you're familiar with the missing amp in real life.

Sure. And I'm all fine with the reasonings.
Yet, I doubt that most people have a "real" demand, they rather just want to have everything.
 
Again, I agree with some of their individual choices being puzzling. But can we at least acknowledge that they're adding 2-4 Fenders in every major update without exception, so they're clearly trying to do justice to their in-house brand?
It's slower than that if you look at the actual classic guitar amp models. I'm not counting a new cabinet on a Blues Junior as being part of the strategy, and I'm not sure the No Bright Cap Tone Master DR, which is not a copy of any past amp, counts for these purposes, either. Likewise bass amps.

The story so far: On 6/2024, for Fender amps they added a Tone Master Deluxe Blonde and a Princeton - with a Soldano and an Orange. On 11/2024, it was a Bassman and a bunch of bass amps. This last update has one classic Fender amp, the Tweed Twin, some Marshalls, and what amounts to a new cabinet for a Blues Junior (they said in the Discord it's not a different amp).

That's 4 actual Fender amps from their history (Bassman, two Princetons, and a Deluxe) in a year and a half. Give them credit for the NBC Tone Master DR Blonde, and it's 5 Fenders in a year and a half. Well less than two per update in either case.

Like, disagree with some of the tactical choices, but the strategy you want seems to be there.
It's too slow for it to be the strategy I want, and focused more on. I don't want to be waiting 5-10 years. I also fully respect that they can';t give me a schedule, so there's no way of knowing what will arrive or when.
 
But I don't even think Fender faults people for demanding lots of amps. They planned for this, and their cadence of amps added is faster than pretty much anyone else doing modeling these days.
Perhaps, but they're starting so far behind that it's going to take several years to catch up, especially if they keep pursuing the "all things to all people" approach.
 
Yet, I doubt that most people have a "real" demand, they rather just want to have everything.
That may be true for many people. And you said you weren't pointing at anyone in particular. For the record, though, I have a real demand. I have plenty of the Fender amps I want in other modelers already, so it's not some Pokemon thing. I have a use for them specifically in the TMP.
 
I have plenty of the Fender amps I want in other modelers already, so it's not some Pokemon thing. I have a use for them specifically in the TMP.

I am curious which ones you are missing and if you have experience with the real versions or just others models?

My experience with real BF Fender amps is there is a lot of variation from the speaker config and OT, a little variation from different B+ voltages and tubes, and obviously some variations where the circuits are different than standard AB763 like the Super or Princeton for example. That said, with different IR's, cab sims, or real cabs, and a little tweaking of the models/controls, I think most of the tones in the lineup could be handled by just a few models.

The Tweeds and Browns have more variation and that I think might need more models to cover.
 
I am curious which ones you are missing and if you have experience with the real versions or just others models?
Right now, the Bandmaster, Tweed Deluxe, brownface Concert, and Brownface Vibrolux. I would also like the Tremolux, Super-Sonics, and whatever else they'll give me to, be honest.

For the four I list, I use them in my FM9 now. I have played three of the four (never the Concert), but not in some time. If I had that many amps, I wouldn't need a modeler.

My experience with real BF Fender amps is there is a lot of variation from the speaker config and OT, a little variation from different B+ voltages and tubes, and obviously some variations where the circuits are different than standard AB763 like the Super or Princeton for example. That said, with different IR's, cab sims, or real cabs, and a little tweaking of the models/controls, I think most of the tones in the lineup could be handled by just a few models.
Perhaps, but I'll explain my use case below.

The Tweeds and Browns have more variation and that I think might need more models to cover.
That seems likely to me as well.

I have a lot of gear. I am not a professional or a live performer, but I have recorded for things like web series and theater. I like effects, but I use them pretty sparingly except when I'm composing specifically for them - but I do like amp trem and reverb. One of my favorite day-to-day ways to play and create is to do the following: Grab a guitar and maybe a pedal. Plug it into an amp (or modeled amp) and dial it in for my mood, my idea, my ears that day, or whatever. Kick on the pedal, kick it back off. Ideas flow. If it was practical for me to have a wall of amps, I would. I would dial in the amps' trem and reverb (when available) as well, but that involves futzing around in a way that breaks things up.

I've been using my FM9 for that purpose, which basically means effects are either on or off. Dialing in either involves keeping the unit on a table or using an editor. Again, it breaks up the flow. I love the FM9, but that use case is not its strength. I've long weanted an amp-only modeler with a big selection of lower to mid gain sounds to experiment with. The FM9 gives me that selection,a nd I have found it exrtremely valuable to have such a nice selection of amps quickly available as presets for feeling around for the sound that fits the moment. Captures don't do it for me, and IR swapping, while certainly valuable, is also generally more fussing than I want for this particular flow. I did it with multiple Tech21 Chartacter pedals back in the day.

When the TMP was announced, I hated the idea of the touch screen, so I kind of wrote it off. I don't want to play into my phone. But as a surprise that's a whole other story, I ended up getting one. I found the interface is perfect for a player like me. First of all, you really don't have to use the touch screen much at all if you don't want to. I can set a preset for each of a bunch of amps with nothing but that amp. It takes pedals ikn the front really well. I plug in and immediately, smoothly dial in because of all the available knobs that map to an easy to read emulation of an amp control panel.

And I am not afraid to use the full range of the knobs. So the idea that I can dial one amp into the ballpark of the other msises the point. I might dial that other amp to where it can't be eplicated (or is at least a lot harder). The point is the range, especially of those low gain sounds where the range omf colors is especially rewarding for me, especially with a wide range of guitars.
 
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