Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[ChordInversion]

I guess my point is that Fender knows implicitly that their offerings wouldn't exclusively be the be-all, end-all except for a small percentage of customers, so a comprehensive offering like this needs to have more.

Perhaps, but it also constituted a competitive advantage that nobody else (other than Marshall pre-sale) could manage. And it's being squanderd, IMO>

Doesn't have to be all things to everyone, and it can't be, really.

No, but they sure seem to be trying.

But they gotta work on a lot in parallel. Doing this on a linear fashion where they don't bother with ANY other amps until they have exhaustively put up the entire history of Fender amplification is a non-starter, commercially speaking.

They have said that they work in sequence as regards amps - about one per month. So they're doing other amps at the expense of Fenders. They don't seem to be very proud of Fender, to be honest. Look at the models they've offered:

Deluxe Reverb (with and without bright cap)
Twin Reverb
Super Reverb
Princeton (standard and reverb)
Tweed Bassman (and two modded versions)
Tweed Deluxe

Then two each of the Bassbreaker and the Blues Junior(!?).

They sure seem to be communicating that they don't think their own company's amp history is especially noteworthy. I mean, the Bassman, DR, and Twin are in the friggin' GT-1000. They've only expanded on the "many budget modelers have them" cliches by three paltry amps and two budget amps. Was anyone really buying a $1600 modeler to get two Blues Juniors and two Bassbreakers, and would they really have been turned off by a Vibrolux Reverb, a Bandmaster Reverb, a Tweed Twin and a Super-Sonic (or a Dual Professional on and on and on)?

It's plain old weird.

 

[ChordInversion]

Yes. Which is why I said “I know this won’t happen and I get why, but what would make me personally the happiest”

I agree completely. It would be a distinctive product that makes the best of their interface. Instead, they've been pulled into (or have been focused all along on) being the "us, too" to Fractal and Line6, and for the only thing especially Fender-y about the product to be the logo on the hardware.

And that's not going to change.

 

[dronerstone]

Perhaps, but it also constituted a competitive advantage that nobody else (other than Marshall pre-sale) could manage. And it's being squanderd, IMO>


No, but they sure seem to be trying.


They have said that they work in sequence as regards amps - about one per month. So they're doing other amps at the expense of Fenders. They don't seem to be very proud of Fender, to be honest. Look at the models they've offered:

Deluxe Reverb (with and without bright cap)
Twin Reverb
Super Reverb
Princeton (standard and reverb)
Tweed Bassman (and two modded versions)
Tweed Deluxe

Then two each of the Bassbreaker and the Blues Junior(!?).

They sure seem to be communicating that they don't think their own company's amp history is especially noteworthy. I mean, the Bassman, DR, and Twin are in the friggin' GT-1000. They've only expanded on the "many budget modelers have them" cliches by three paltry amps and two budget amps. Was anyone really buying a $1600 modeler to get two Blues Juniors and two Bassbreakers, and would they really have been turned off by a Vibrolux Reverb, a Bandmaster Reverb, a Tweed Twin and a Super-Sonic (or a Dual Professional on and on and on)?

It's plain old weird.

How many F-style amp models were in the Cyber Twin?

 

[metropolis_4]

I agree completely. It would be a distinctive product that makes the best of their interface. Instead, they've been pulled into (or have been focused all along on) being the "us, too" to Fractal and Line6, and for the only thing especially Fender-y about the product to be the logo on the hardware.

And that's not going to change.

Though as someone who has used every single generation of Fender digital since the Cyber Twin I might say that including really shitty sounding Vox and Marshall models is a very Fender-y thing for them to do


If I had been on the Fender product development team my pitch would have been you’re not gonna out Fractal Fractal. So instead of trying to be everything to everyone, play to your strengths and find a dedicated niche in the market.
Fender is the grandfather of guitar amps as we know them, and the inventor of some of the most widely used and loved amps of all time. Amps that have stood the test of time and have been used extensively for generations. And Fender has access to some amps from their archives that nobody else could give us. Give us that history in the TMP, focus on being the definitive modeler of choice for all the people who have used and loved Fender amps all these decades. Give us esoteric amps that nobody else could do. Give us things like an authentic model of the exact prototype Dick Dale blew out Leo’s ear with, or the amp Leo built for Junior Barnard.

A Deluxe Reverb doesn’t provide all things to all guitarists, yet it’s remained one of the most used and influential amps in the world for 60 years because it does what it does really well, and it fills a niche. Make a modeler that does the same thing.

There’s no rule that says that every modeler must provide everything

 

[ChordInversion]

How many F-style amp models were in the Cyber Twin?

No idea, but the bar was much lower back then.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Though as someone who has used every single generation of Fender digital since the Cyber Twin I might say that including really shitty sounding Vox and Marshall models is a very Fender-y thing for them to do


If I had been on the Fender product development team my pitch would have been you’re not gonna out Fractal Fractal. So instead of trying to be everything to everyone, play to your strengths and find a dedicated niche in the market.
Fender is the grandfather of guitar amps as we know them, and the inventor of some of the most widely used and loved amps of all time. Amps that have stood the test of time and have been used extensively for generations. And Fender has access to some amps from their archives that nobody else could give us. Give us that history in the TMP, focus on being the definitive modeler of choice for all the people who have used and loved Fender amps all these decades. Give us esoteric amps that nobody else could do. Give us things like an authentic model of the exact prototype Dick Dale blew out Leo’s ear with, or the amp Leo built for Junior Barnard.

A Deluxe Reverb doesn’t provide all things to all guitarists, yet it’s remained one of the most used and influential amps in the world for 60 years because it does what it does really well, and it fills a niche. Make a modeler that does the same thing.

There’s no rule that says that every modeler must provide everything

Give us the Machete and the Prosonic

 

[ChordInversion]

Though as someone who has used every single generation of Fender digital since the Cyber Twin I might say that including really shitty sounding Vox and Marshall models is a very Fender-y thing for them to do


If I had been on the Fender product development team my pitch would have been you’re not gonna out Fractal Fractal. So instead of trying to be everything to everyone, play to your strengths and find a dedicated niche in the market.
Fender is the grandfather of guitar amps as we know them, and the inventor of some of the most widely used and loved amps of all time. Amps that have stood the test of time and have been used extensively for generations. And Fender has access to some amps from their archives that nobody else could give us. Give us that history in the TMP, focus on being the definitive modeler of choice for all the people who have used and loved Fender amps all these decades. Give us esoteric amps that nobody else could do. Give us things like an authentic model of the exact prototype Dick Dale blew out Leo’s ear with, or the amp Leo built for Junior Barnard.

In their defense, they did include two Bassbreakers and two Blues Juniors!

A Deluxe Reverb doesn’t provide all things to all guitarists, yet it’s remained one of the most used and influential amps in the world for 60 years because it does what it does really well, and it fills a niche. Make a modeler that does the same thing.

There’s no rule that says that every modeler must provide everything

Agreed. But they all seem to insist upon it. I guess any given subset is considered too small to bother?

 

[ChordInversion]

How many F-style amp models were in the Cyber Twin?

I looked it up. Many, many more than the TMP:

Fender Cyber-Twin Amp Collection List | Owner Manual

www.manualowl.com

That list includes the Tremolux, Vibrolux Reverb, Champ, Bandmaster, Pro, Prosonic, *and* everything in the TMP right now (and more).

So even at a time when the amp variety expectation was lower, Fender showed more pride in Fender with the Cyber Twin than they do with the TMP.

 

[mikah912]

Perhaps, but it also constituted a competitive advantage that nobody else (other than Marshall pre-sale) could manage. And it's being squanderd, IMO>


No, but they sure seem to be trying.


They have said that they work in sequence as regards amps - about one per month. So they're doing other amps at the expense of Fenders. They don't seem to be very proud of Fender, to be honest. Look at the models they've offered:

Deluxe Reverb (with and without bright cap)
Twin Reverb
Super Reverb
Princeton (standard and reverb)
Tweed Bassman (and two modded versions)
Tweed Deluxe

Then two each of the Bassbreaker and the Blues Junior(!?).

They sure seem to be communicating that they don't think their own company's amp history is especially noteworthy. I mean, the Bassman, DR, and Twin are in the friggin' GT-1000. They've only expanded on the "many budget modelers have them" cliches by three paltry amps and two budget amps. Was anyone really buying a $1600 modeler to get two Blues Juniors and two Bassbreakers, and would they really have been turned off by a Vibrolux Reverb, a Bandmaster Reverb, a Tweed Twin and a Super-Sonic (or a Dual Professional on and on and on)?

It's plain old weird.

To be fair, you left out the VibroKing.

This is always a can't win proposition. While some individual choices are head scratchers (I can't defend the Bassbreaker or Blues Junior this early on), the overall effort seems to be grabbing as many iconic amps (e.g. Soldano, Orange, JTM45) as possible along with a steady drip of Fenders.

That's probably what will make the most potential customers happiest the soonest. Supersonic, Machete, Bandmaster.....not so iconic.

Now, if the next update had, say, a Randall Kirk Hammett 120 and a Marshall JCM2000, I'd most certainly scratch my head and wonder what they're smoking.

 

[ChordInversion]

To be fair, you left out the VibroKing.

I did, though I will note that it is not done to parity with other amps (no trem or reverb controls, which the DR and TR and SR have). They said they'll finish it, but clearly not yet.

This is always a can't win proposition. While some individual choices are head scratchers (I can't defend the Bassbreaker or Blues Junior this early on), the overall effort seems to be grabbing as many iconic amps (e.g. Soldano, Orange, JTM45) as possible along with a steady drip of Fenders.

An extremely slow drip of Fenders. Including a second Blues Junior! Oh boy! But seriously, in the past year they've added a Tweed Deluxe and variations on a Bassman (which was weird not to have included at launch). That's it. Go back another half year, and you get a Princeton and the blonde Tone Master DR (not even a vintage model, just something "inspired by" one). It'll be many years before they match the Cyber Twin at that pace, if they ever do.

That's probably what will make the most potential customers happiest the soonest. Supersonic, Machete, Bandmaster.....not so iconic.

Vibrolux Reverb, Pro Reverb, Tremolux, Tweed Twin, Champ...there are a lot of "not obscure" options if they took any pride in Fender whatsoever. And if they're putting in two Bassbreakers and two Blues Juniors, don't tell me the Super-Sonic or Prosonic are too fringe. Again, they included a lot more in the Cyber Twin all those years ago. And I disagree on the Bandmaster. I think there are plenty of people who would be into that. Fender should absolutely be selling to country and rockabilly players, and I've seen indie rock people playing those.

And besides, if they try to be all things to all people, they're always going to be playing catch up.

Now, if the next update had, say, a Randall Kirk Hammett 120 and a Marshall JCM2000, I'd most certainly scratch my head and wonder what they're smoking.

I'm already there, but you knew that already.

 

[norminal]

FFS, there is sooooooooo much overlap with Fender amps, but I get that people want more models of other brands. Given the fact that this is a Fender product, I’m guessing the scales are going to tip in their brand’s direction.

 

[ChordInversion]

FFS, there is sooooooooo much overlap with Fender amps, but I get that people want more models of other brands. Given the fact that this is a Fender product, I’m guessing the scales are going to tip in their brand’s direction.

Apparently not. They're pretty sparse on Fenders right now. But hey, if Fender wants to take the stance that their amp history is overrated, that's a choice they can make.

 

[GTR37]

I mean, at least they didn’t remove gapless switching.

That is being redesigned for Corus 5.0

 

[[Nathan]]

More importantly we have the evh stealth but I’ll patiently wait for the ivory and el34 to be added, completely different amps and some of the only fender ones I’m waiting on.

I saw someone post a clip of the Prosonic yesterday. Very Mesa/soldano ish, chuck it on the list.

 

[texhex]

I know when I’m using them that the some of the amp models are not as accurate as others and the SIC is totally wrong, but I can make this thing sound really, really good. It also has a crazy low noise floor, also not as accurate as a real amp but kinda nice in the same “I know it’s not right but it sounds good” vein.

God I just wish they would have done the SIC correctly so I could use just my IR and it would just work, every time, without me having to jack around with their stupid 4x12 cross my fingers and hope list of BS. Frigging thing would be a total knock out if that was fixed!

Also, why can’t I make a full backup (including system settings, IRs, etc. not just Presets!) to my PC? My cloud login doesn’t work because I forgot my password, and the forgot password function isn’t sending the reset to my Gmail…

Fender, you guys were soooo close.

Anyway, the update is nice and it flashed easily enough.

 

[Frodebro]

If I had been on the Fender product development team my pitch would have been you’re not gonna out Fractal Fractal. So instead of trying to be everything to everyone, play to your strengths and find a dedicated niche in the market.

They were quite a ways behind everything else on the market at launch, which isn't a dealbreaker but it puts them at a pretty major disadvantage as far as being able to close the gap with their projected update schedule. Their updates would have to be huge every time, and even if they were Fractal and Line6 aren't going to just sit on their hands and let them catch up.

 

[essemmarr]

Apparently not. They're pretty sparse on Fenders right now. But hey, if Fender wants to take the stance that their amp history is overrated, that's a choice they can make.

I get it, you're PO'd that they didn't put your pet favorite amps in this update but now you've moved on to declaring their motives around it and maybe you can go touch grass for a bit because that's a bit much.

 

[BenIfin]

FFS, there is sooooooooo much overlap with Fender amps.....

By my quick research there have been 17,638 different Fender Amp Models released over the years, and these 17,638 "all different" Fender Amps all deliver 3 variations of the same clean tone.

" I'm recording an album ..... get me 26 different Fender Amps for my clean tones " said no-one ever.

 

[ChordInversion]

I get it, you're PO'd that they didn't put your pet favorite amps in this update but now you've moved on to declaring their motives around it and maybe you can go touch grass for a bit because that's a bit much.

That's a bit much. I'm just being snarky. I get that I might sound strident. I'm already over it.

And I go outside every day, usually touching grass and/or other plants. I start the day with a nice walk.

 

[mikah912]

That's a bit much. I'm just being snarky. I get that I might sound strident. I'm already over it.

And I go outside every day, usually touching grass and/or other plants. I start the day with a nice walk.

Again, I agree with some of their individual choices being puzzling. But can we at least acknowledge that they're adding 2-4 Fenders in every major update without exception, so they're clearly trying to do justice to their in-house brand?

Like, disagree with some of the tactical choices, but the strategy you want seems to be there.