Boss GM-800 and GK-5

[Trollbait]

Dude, just play the accordion then

Do you remember when the tech was new and cost upwards of $400,000? One soft jazz artist was making harmonica sounds with it and, I believe it was Andy Summers, who was critical of doing that when a harmonica only costs something like $10.

I also believe its important for any guitar player new to this technology to understand what they're getting into. Listening to internet poster gas can give the wrong impression. Most here have already adapted their playing techniques so triggering internal sounds on any Roland PCM based guitar synth works well enough to play some organ sounds or cover "Jump".

I'm not that guy who wants to play accordion, harmonica sounds on a guitar. I want to trigger actual analog synths with a guitar while my keyboard skills improve.

If the GM800 sucks at guitar P2M just say so.

Quote from experienced midi guitar musician at VGF on a GM800 thread.

"You can tell, watching Alex, that he's being extremely careful with his playing and when he's playing in Logic you can see a false trigger appearing in the midi data display even when he's playing methodically, with a super simple line."

 

[Trollbait]

Hey, Wookiee, sorry I interrupted your circle jerk. Carry on.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

"You can tell, watching Alex, that he's being extremely careful with his playing and when he's playing in Logic you can see a false trigger appearing in the midi data display even when he's playing methodically, with a super simple line."

It’s true I watch him make it work and know I’ve got a long way to go. And I watch Jordan Rudess play keys and know I could never get that good in my lifetime.
so I get on my GM800 and get better at it and you know what? It’s damn good and a lot of fun even though I’ll never play as cleanly as Alex I find a lot of inspiration in playing it within my ability and within the capabilities of the hardware as well as a lot of satisfaction in slowly eliminating some of my bad habits which helps with all my playing.

So don’t get one because you need more, but don’t think there is no good in having one.
Coming from the very early iterations it’s been an interesting and often fulfilling ride for lots of us.

 

[TJontheRoad]

Do you remember when the tech was new and cost upwards of $400,000? One soft jazz artist was making harmonica sounds with it and, I believe it was Andy Summers, who was critical of doing that when a harmonica only costs something like $10.

I also believe its important for any guitar player new to this technology to understand what they're getting into. Listening to internet poster gas can give the wrong impression. Most here have already adapted their playing techniques so triggering internal sounds on any Roland PCM based guitar synth works well enough to play some organ sounds or cover "Jump".

I'm not that guy who wants to play accordion, harmonica sounds on a guitar. I want to trigger actual analog synths with a guitar while my keyboard skills improve.

If the GM800 sucks at guitar P2M just say so.

Quote from experienced midi guitar musician at VGF on a GM800 thread.

"You can tell, watching Alex, that he's being extremely careful with his playing and when he's playing in Logic you can see a false trigger appearing in the midi data display even when he's playing methodically, with a super simple line."

I'm always reminded, even by this thread, that some of the biggest hit records were made with the shittiest gear nobody wanted at the time.

Moral is, don't blame the gear if ain't getting you were you want to go. Make the best of what's available to you and make it count.

 

[yeky83]

Quote from experienced midi guitar musician at VGF on a GM800 thread.

"You can tell, watching Alex, that he's being extremely careful with his playing and when he's playing in Logic you can see a false trigger appearing in the midi data display even when he's playing methodically, with a super simple line."

An account of an account!

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[JiveTurkey]

I should sit down and try it with my new EZ Keys soft synth and see how it does

 

[Trollbait]

I’ll never play as cleanly as Alex I find a lot of inspiration in playing it within my ability

Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to adapt your playing techniques to keep these Roland PCM based guitar synths on track? When I first purchased my GR50, there was nothing in the sales literature that talked about mistriggers, ghost notes, octave jumps etc.

But you are correct, still fun if you are willing adapt your playing techniques and want to spend over $1000 to play $10 harmonica sounds. Lol.

The VGs, GP10 and the SYs perform better with tracking issues on the HRM sounds and don't require the same level of technique adjustment. However, still need a well set up guitar.

Moral is, don't blame the gear if ain't getting you were you want to go. Make the best of what's available to you and make it count.

All these DSP have their limitations, no doubt. But shouldn't a consumer know what those limitations are before buying a product and expect bugs to be fixed after the sale, such as the poor performance of the osc synth and P2M on the SY1000? If it works better on the GM800, why not the SY1000?

An account of an account!

An account by an experienced observer. That guy at V is an excellent musian and sound designer.

 

[gumtown]

Here is another VGuitarForums account of the GM-800 vs Fishman trippleplay:

Note that the GM-800 does not accept mono mode input:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36024.0

So if mono mode is important to you, you do not want to drive the GM-800 via the FTP.

I find the GK => GM-800 to be more playable than the FTP => GM-800. I think Roland has addressed a lot of issues found in other recent units.

The FTP has a clear edge in terms of latency - of a few ms. The difference in latency is barely perceptible, though.

But I also think the tracking & dynamics of the GM-800 meet or exceed the FTP. I simply find it more playable...

 

[yeky83]

An account by an experienced observer. That guy at V is an excellent musian and sound designer.

My bad, an account of an account by an experienced observer. And you're obviously an experienced observer of accounts, so your account that it's an account by an experienced observer is the more accountable one.

 

[gumtown]

The plot thickens though! Gumtown has posted another account of a different account!

Here is another account of the GM-800 posted and observed by myself on VGuitarForums, so it must be true then.
You can post an account of an observer, observing himself posting an account of real life experience with the GM-800 . . . right ?


So you should trust me when I say the GM-800 is good !! because I have actually tried it myself and it works (after a setup of basic system functions)
Certainly much better than the GR-55.
As for HRM processing devices like the VG-88, VG-99, SY-1000, and not having the best guitar to midi speed,
the guitar to midi is not the core function of those units,
where, as far as the Roland dedicated PCM synth units go, guitar to midi is the core function,
so of course those units will do that function better.

I have no desire for the GK-5 pickup as I already have many instruments fitted with the legacy 13 pin pickups, and the GK-5 does not offer GK-Vol or S1/S2 switching.
I am sure in the near future Boss will release a function featured GK Serial pickup.

I have already loaded in a few Expansion packs (PCM Samples) and Sound Packs (synth voice expansion), but to get the most of the available,
you can do just a 3 month $30 Zen Core Pro subscription, download all the Expansion and Sound packs, design few new voices in the Zen Core Pro editor (Zen Core has the synth hardware of all historic Analog and digital synths).
Then only need to subscribe temporarily the the Zen Core only if required, but I really can't be bothered wasting my life trying to make new sounds, I would rather load in what I like for the Sound Pack sets, and get on with it and play.

I am really liking the GM-800,
the note tracking is solid,
and the basic elements of the instrument tone set are better than the GR-55,
in a way that you can choose clean tones without the added effect and modulations the GR-55 instrument tones have burnt into the PCM sample.
This allows you to add modulations and effects to basic tones only when required.

The adjustable dynamics and velocity settings per tone is very useful to sculpture great reactive dynamic to your tones.
Some of the boutique chorus/delays are great !! they add a full spread to the sound, and finally a pitch-shifter effect to add harmonies to a single note.

I am loving the feature of being able to play tones from two sources, GK and midi in,
but my only feature wish for a firmware update is to be able to select the "Source input" options "per patch".
Maybe an Arpeggiator (sequencer?) would have been a handy option too.

It can be easy to get overwhelmed with option-overload, but when creating a new Scene, start with everything 'off' then just add (and work with) one element at a time.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to adapt your playing techniques to keep these Roland PCM based guitar synths on track? When I first purchased my GR50, there was nothing in the sales literature that talked about mistriggers, ghost notes, octave jumps etc.

But you are correct, still fun if you are willing adapt your playing techniques and want to spend over $1000 to play $10 harmonica sounds. Lol.

Funny, my GM800 has lots and lots of very good sounds, way better than my SY1000 did or numerous previous Roland and Boss synth devices had! It makes coping with sensitive triggering well worth it.
You might want to send yours back for repair because your experience seems like it was with a defective unit...you are missing out!

 

[Trollbait]

As for HRM processing devices like the VG-88, VG-99, SY-1000, and not having the best guitar to midi speed,
the guitar to midi is not the core function of those units,
where, as far as the Roland dedicated PCM synth units go, guitar to midi is the core function,
so of course those units will do that function better.

Why? If the SY1000 has Guitar P2M shouldn't it work? After all the osc synth in that unit is most likely a PCM based synth. And have you tried the GM800 P2M yet?. If so I would be interested in your observations, because isn't that what these forums partly exist for, ie user experiences from trusted sources? VGF mostly has that trusted reputation (many times using scientific method) however lots of gear shills and gear shill wannabes out there on the web and trolls in the Forest.

have no desire for the GK-5 pickup as I already have many instruments fitted with the legacy 13 pin pickups, and the GK-5 does not offer GK-Vol or S1/S2 switching.

What? That GK5 pup was your idea that you were pushing for years and now you don't want one?

 

[Trollbait]

You might want to send yours back for repair because your experience seems like it was with a defective unit...you are missing out!

I'm only looking for the P2M tracking performance that the GR internal sounds have with all the that I've owned and tried. Hard to get a trusted opinion on that here. Have you tried the P2M in the GM800? If so, how well does that feature perform? Like the internal sounds tracking?

Yet somehow, some way, he's the smartest guy in the room. It must truly be a big burden.

What an ass you are.

 

[SKU]

What a troll you are. Your lack of self-awareness is astounding, and more than a little sad. Just buy a Fishman, and be done with it. Go away. troll.

Tbh you've been trolling him a lot more than he's been doing it to you

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I'm only looking for the P2M tracking performance that the GR internal sounds have with all the that I've owned and tried. Hard to get a trusted opinion on that here. Have you tried the P2M in the GM800? If so, how well does that feature perform? Like the internal sounds tracking?

What an ass you are.

I haven’t tried it, other than a quick check to ensure it was functioning. I had a quick go into my Korg Minilogue XD, don’t recall any disappointment nor any amazement in that regard.

With so many good sounds available both on board and ready to download and the small form factor, which I love, for the first time in my guitar synth journey I felt no need to look beyond the ecosystem it provides. No need to have a tether to another device. So another plus for the GM800.

i don’t know if you would love it but if you think it’s just a thousand dollar harmonica sim you have set the bar very low so you would likely be pleasantly surprised. I think the false triggering is very close to the same as the SY1000 but I sold the SY at least a month before I got the GM so memory is all I can rely on.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

also it helps to use a guitar that doesn’t fight the application…

 

[SKU]

Think so? He's commenting about shit he's never tried, pointing to posts from another forum, and then arguing about it with a bunch of people who've used/owned the GM-800. It's absurd. It's like arguing about the seats in a Ferrari because you read a Car and Driver review, with people that own one - on a different forum

My last post on this thread ( unless I'll be interested in the GM800 soon, who knows ) but this is a bit ironic, no?

 

[TJontheRoad]

All these DSP have their limitations, no doubt. But shouldn't a consumer know what those limitations are before buying a product and expect bugs to be fixed after the sale, such as the poor performance of the osc synth and P2M on the SY1000? If it works better on the GM800, why not the SY1000?

Sigh, you missed the entire point of my post. Entire new genres of music were created with gear that was initially dismissed as crap in the same way you are describing. Ironically, the two that come to mind are from Roland. The TR-808 brought on the sound of HipHop. The TB-303 is the sound of Acid. Both were considered flops in market and were only made 3-4 years in small numbers. Now, original examples go for big money. They became famous after guys bought them used cheap in pawn shops because that's all they could afford. In those hands, they created a revolution.

The GM-800 isn't a flop. While we are talking, someone out there is working on the next big thing with one. That's what matters.

 

[Trollbait]

The GM-800 isn't a flop.

I never said the GM800 was a flop, just nothing new. Not the holy frail of guitar synths. I really don't need harmonica, sax, tuba etc sounds. I have all those already but don't really use them only because I'm into analog synth sounds and could use a flawless P2M to trigger those synths.

To up date the sounds in the Roland GR50 it's very easy just to send those waveforms into a synth like a moog matriarch. Internal sounds have always tracked well in all the GR synths.

This type of new gear for many is just an online social thing. Out with the old, in with the new while the old stuff works fine and as good as the Roland repackage job.

But shills gotta shill, so yea spend your money on the same old thing.