Boss GM-800 and GK-5

[TJontheRoad]

So wondering something here... So if im going to have the new gk-5 pickup and serial cable going into the new gm-800, then gm-800 going into the converter box, and then 13-pin cable from converter box going into sy-1000.... What would we set our IN / OUT settings for the GK pickup in the sy-1000 system menu... They don't have option for gk-5 and i doubt they'll be giving us an update to add that to the options in sy-1000 or any other older units, so would we just leave it at gk-3?

If you're going to run any older GK gear or even just regular guitar audio, I don't think using the new GK-5 makes sense. It only seems to make sense if only want the GM-800 synth sounds. Any better tracking that might be there isn't coming from the GK-5.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

If you're going to run any older GK gear or even just regular guitar audio, I don't think using the new GK-5 makes sense. It only seems to make sense if only want the GM-800 synth sounds. Any better tracking that might be there isn't coming from the GK-5.

Well i don't have gk-3 or gk-2 pickup, so ordered gk-5 along with gm-800 and 2 new cables and converter box I'll need, so it's the only way I can do it.

 

[TJontheRoad]

Well i don't have gk-3 or gk-2 pickup, so ordered gk-5 along with gm-800 and 2 new cables and converter box I'll need, so it's the only way I can do it.

Is there any other reason you're preferring to buy the GK-5 over the GK-3? The lack of a guitar input and controls on the GK-5 doesn't seem to outweigh any benefit of the 1/4" cable without guitar signal over the 13 pin IMO.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

Is there any other reason you're preferring to buy the GK-5 over the GK-3? The lack of a guitar input and controls on the GK-5 doesn't seem to outweigh any benefit of the 1/4" cable without guitar signal over the 13 pin IMO.

Not really, just that the local shop was ordering them and didn't have gk-3 or wasn't going to order gk-3. For my home use, gk-5 is fine, I can balance sounds and switches on the units when doing things.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

I'm still a bit confused about the preset stuff for gm-800 under the roland cloud manager app.

So manual says SVZ or SDZ files for tones you wanna import to the gm-800 or EXZ files for expansions to import to the gm-800.

There's section for each synth they offer under hardware section and then it has the GM-800 section under guitar & bass.

So I downloaded every "FREE" pack I could find for tones and every free expansion packs as well under all hardware synths in the roland cloud manager.

They all are labeled .sdz for tones and .exz for expansions. I haven't seen a SVZ file yet.
However will they all work in the GM-800 since they all seem to be using the same file system no matter the synth?

 

[hippietim]

Trying to think on the scenario on how I'm going to use GM-800 and SY-1000 together.

I think I like the idea of running the outputs of the GM-800 into the SEND / RETURN on the SY-1000 where I could move the GM-800 around on any of the paths. Then the outs of the SY-1000 into my line 6 helix fx loop. For normal guitar sounds, I have line 6 g10 wireless hooked to my line 6 helix if needed or use the guitar / acoustic stuff in the sy-1000 if needed etc.

With a Helix, SY-1000, and GM-800 I wouldn’t connect them to each other at all. They all have a large compliment of high quality effects so there’s not a whole lot of need to run them into each other. Use a mixer instead. Much simpler to connect and control. This way you don’t have to worry about editing presets whenever you want to blend sounds from multiple processors. Any decent line mixer will do the trick. For tabletop mixer, my go to is a Yamaha MG series mixer.

 

[TJontheRoad]

I'm still a bit confused about the preset stuff for gm-800 under the roland cloud manager app.

So manual says SVZ or SDZ files for tones you wanna import to the gm-800 or EXZ files for expansions to import to the gm-800.

There's section for each synth they offer under hardware section and then it has the GM-800 section under guitar & bass.

So I downloaded every "FREE" pack I could find for tones and every free expansion packs as well under all hardware synths in the roland cloud manager.

They all are labeled .sdz for tones and .exz for expansions. I haven't seen a SVZ file yet.
However will they all work in the GM-800 since they all seem to be using the same file system no matter the synth?

It is confusing. Classic Roland speak :-/

IIRC, EXZ file are like zip files for the expansion packs. Within them they contain individual files that can be exported to a thumb drive via Zenology lite or Pro. When you get your GM-800, best thing to do is sign up for a trial RC subscription. You can then download almost anything. Once it's downloaded into the GM-800, it's yours.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

It is confusing. Classic Roland speak :-/

IIRC, EXZ file are like zip files for the expansion packs. Within them they contain individual files that can be exported to a thumb drive via Zenology lite or Pro. When you get your GM-800, best thing to do is sign up for a trial RC subscription. You can then download almost anything. Once it's downloaded into the GM-800, it's yours.

I'm not sure why you would need to do that. Manual says just take a thumb drive and any wave extension goes to the root section, then make a folder ROLAND and another one inside that one named SOUNDS and then sdz and svz goes in those, and then stick it in the boss gm-800 usb memory port and follow the instructions to import etc.. Don't think you need zenology to do any of that?

All i wanna know is if any sdz / svz or exz file will work in gm-800 from the roland cloud manager, because all the packs seem to have the same extension, so why do they even make separate tabs for each hardware if they're all compatible.... I guess i'll find out when my gm-800 comes.

 

[Whizzinby]

The last couple of pages have worried me. lol

Let me confirm, if I buy this bundle:

1. Attach pickup to guitar (double sided tape)
2. Run the bundled BGK-15 cord from pickup to device
3. Run cable from device to either my DAW or powered monitors

There are a whole lot of acronyms being thrown around here, just want to make sure I’m tracking this in its simplest form.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

The last couple of pages have worried me. lol

Let me confirm, if I buy this bundle:

1. Attach pickup to guitar (double sided tape)
2. Run the bundled BGK-15 cord from pickup to device
3. Run cable from device to either my DAW or powered monitors

There are a whole lot of acronyms being thrown around here, just want to make sure I’m tracking this in its simplest form.

That will work.
By 'cable to DAW' you have a choice to make.

You can use the GM800 as the interface... USB cable from GM800 to send audio for tracking to the computer that hosts the DAW. Select the correct USB track input in your DAW for the GM800...probably 1/2. Select the output of the GM800 as output in DAW to send it via a pair of audio cables to the monitors.

Or, if you already have an audio interface you like, send audio cables from the GM800 to the interface. Send the output of your interface to the monitors.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I would go a step further and say if you aren't using alt tuning or guitar and amp modeling from the SY; I wouldn't even put it in the mix at all. Brock's thing is Brock's thing really no matter what gear he uses. I have my own cover band equivalent of this. The SY1000 is like a ROIDED out GP10. And I love it. But all I use live is GR55. And from the sounds of it, those activities (as well as the faster tracking dance-y synth stuff like Gaga that the GR doesn't do well) can be covered by the GM. Question is will I stick with what I have or do a hard switchover. We are our absolute busiest these next two months so I might dodge this bullet. Or I might dive in full bore

 

[Whizzinby]

That will work.
By 'cable to DAW' you have a choice to make.

You can use the GM800 as the interface... USB cable from GM800 to send audio for tracking to the computer that hosts the DAW. Select the correct USB track input in your DAW for the GM800...probably 1/2. Select the output of the GM800 as output in DAW to send it via a pair of audio cables to the monitors.

Or, if you already have an audio interface you like, send audio cables from the GM800 to the interface. Send the output of your interface to the monitors.

I’m tracking on the DAW connections.

The pickup doesn’t need to be powered by a separate source correct? Just the pedal itself, right?

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Tracking in the DAW connection.

The pickup doesn’t need to be powered by a separate source correct? Just the pedal itself, right?

Correct, GM800 sends power to the GK5 pickup.
Basically you need the three items in your picture... GM800, GK5 pickup (on your guitar) and the serial cable from guitar to GM800...and it works.

You just need to record/listen to it by connecting to one or more of: USB audio, headphones, left/right GM800 output.

 

[mbenigni]

Just messing around with a SY-1000 + GM-800 configuration + keys. Not 100% how yet I'll add in the iPad for patch switching and backing tracks. I may need to add an interface to use it via USB.

TJ, do you own a copy of Camelot Pro yet? It might make you wonder why there's anything in this picture apart from the iPad.

 

[mbenigni]

I wonder how ”in the box” compares to MIDI conversion on this one. On the GR-55, and even the 30/33, the in the box tracking was quite good. It wasn’t until you went to trigger outside stuff that it somewhat fell apart.

Also, it’s good to hear that the tones are better this time; I always felt that the 33 sounded better than the 55 did.

I actually think tracking on the 30/33 was better than on the 55. Fewer spurious notes outside the reasonable bounds of the guitar's actual fretboard. (I.e. better low-pass filtering before and/or after conversion.)

 

[mbenigni]

From the BM-800, the GK-5 uses A2B digital protocol, as used in the automotive industry, for support of up to 32 digital channels of audio (TDM32, only 6 used here).
Power and data on the same 110 ohm cable pair.

32 is an awfully big number. It's a shame Roland didn't leverage a fraction of the remaining bandwidth to get the actual guitar signal down the line. That would have made a lot of significantly more elegant configurations possible with one serial cable.

 

[mbenigni]

The lack of a guitar input and controls on the GK-5 doesn't seem to outweigh any benefit of the 1/4" cable without guitar signal over the 13 pin IMO.

This. Is. So. Roland.

 

[aerial7]

32 is an awfully big number. It's a shame Roland didn't leverage a fraction of the remaining bandwidth to get the actual guitar signal down the line. That would have made a lot of significantly more elegant configurations possible with one serial cable.

Yeah, that's what I've been touching on....

Someone else is going to do a "MIDI" pickup that is audio-only, and does the conversion elsewhere.
* Cheaper pickup, so you can put it on my guitars, easier to replace
* Smaller, easier to embed in the guitar
* Offloading the conversion means you might leverage more CPU/DSP for MIDI conversion (if that's even needed, not sure), and the conversion is applicable to ANYTHING that is sending raw audio into it.

Never got into the 13-pin stuff, but I have this vague memory that it kind of worked this way as well? I.e., audio-only coming off the guitar?

Also, 32 channels means someone is going to re-invent the controls on a guitar; more than enough to send volume, tone, etc.

Even better to merge the mag pickups into the same cable -- more than enough channels to do all this.

 

[mbenigni]

Yeah, that's what I've been touching on....

Someone else is going to do a "MIDI" pickup that is audio-only, and does the conversion elsewhere.
* Cheaper pickup, so you can put it on my guitars, easier to replace
* Smaller, easier to embed in the guitar
* Offloading the conversion means you might leverage more CPU/DSP for MIDI conversion (if that's even needed, not sure), and the conversion is applicable to ANYTHING that is sending raw audio into it.

Never got into the 13-pin stuff, but I have this vague memory that it kind of worked this way as well? I.e., audio-only coming off the guitar?

Also, 32 channels means someone is going to re-invent the controls on a guitar; more than enough to send volume, tone, etc.

Even better to merge the mag pickups into the same cable -- more than enough channels to do all this.

Yes, the 13-pin stuff was 6x (+1 for mags) audio from guitar to various outboard units, by way of a cable with many wires bundled inside. The new GK5 approach is fundamentally the same, except that the 6x audio channels are digitized, compressed, and sent down one wire in a serial format.

So I'm not sure the GK5/GM800 kit is all that different from what you have in mind. It does a few additional things with the audio that arrives at the GM800 apart from pitch to MIDI, and on the flipside, Roland has missed a few opportunities (guitar audio, controls) - presumably to manage cost and footprint.

 

[mbenigni]

Question is will I stick with what I have or do a hard switchover. We are our absolute busiest these next two months so I might dodge this bullet. Or I might dive in full bore

What's the over/under?