Anybody else getting sick of modellers?

[Sascha Franck]

So this absolutely matters.

But dynamic range doesn't say much about conversion quality and possible coloration.
Besides, I think the reason for Line 6 to do their "trick" is rather to avoid input clipping at all cost, even if you run very hot pickups or a pretty hot booster into the device. Under "normal" conditions a guitar signal shouldn't need a dynamic input range that high.

 

[Shredder777]

But dynamic range doesn't say much about conversion quality and possible coloration.
Besides, I think the reason for Line 6 to do their "trick" is rather to avoid input clipping at all cost, even if you run very hot pickups or a pretty hot booster into the device. Under "normal" conditions a guitar signal shouldn't need a dynamic input range that high.

The more dynamic range on input, the greater it will be through the entire path.

A device with less dynamic range, won't necessarily clip, but the volume level between highest and lowest will be less. And I also believe the noise floor will be greater relative to the signal level.

How can something with less dynamic range than a real amp, actually recreate the sound of a real amp??

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Can we start a subforum called “wild conjecture about gear with which we have no hands on experience”. Folks can talk about how over-rated vintage instruments are, how much better they bet one thing they have never played sounds compared to another thing they haven’t played based on a spec sheet data, or even better, about what they presume a spec sheet data is. It can have a sister sub-forum “where we talk about videoes we didn’t watch and articles we didn’t read.”

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The more dynamic range on input, the greater it will be through the entire path.

A device with less dynamic range, won't necessarily clip, but the volume level between highest and lowest will be less. And I also believe the noise floor will be greater relative to the signal level.

Given that we are talking about electric guitar (in your instance rock guitar), not recording of, say, acoustic classical music…the real world impact of dynamic range in a modeler is noise floor.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Most of these tube amps can’t be played at volumes suitable for home. So even if you like the amp in the room … I don’t see myself playing even a Deluxe Reverb at home (or never get higher than 2(?). My teacher mentioned she can’t get her tube higher than that without causing problems.

Wonder how Tom feels about the Tonemaster series

Lots of modern tube amps sound just fine/excellent at very low volumes. My mark V and 5153 are good examples of this and I’ve owned plenty of others

Other older amps like my mark III and mark IV (and my deluxe reverb too) I’ll use the -20db attenuator on my two note captor with extremely satisfactory results (when at home, not for band/gig stuff). I initially had no intention of using the attenuator when I first got this unit and was more interested in the load box + IR functionality but I actually like that attenuation far more than just using IRs into headphones or whatever

 

[spawnofthesith]

 

[Frodebro]

Can we start a subforum called “wild conjecture about gear with which we have no hands on experience”. Folks can talk about how over-rated vintage instruments are, how much better they bet one thing they have never played sounds compared to another thing they haven’t played based on a spec sheet data, or even better, about what they presume a spec sheet data is. It can have a sister sub-forum “where we talk about videoes we didn’t watch and articles we didn’t read.”

I’ll take “Audiophile power cables for $2,000,” Alex…

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Lots of modern tube amps sound just fine/excellent at very low volumes. My mark V and 5153 are good examples of this and I’ve owned plenty of others

Other older amps like my mark III and mark IV (and my deluxe reverb too) I’ll use the -20db attenuator on my two note captor with extremely satisfactory results (when at home, not for band/gig stuff). I initially had no intention of using the attenuator when I first got this unit and was more interested in the load box + IR functionality but I actually like that attenuation far more than just using IRs into headphones or whatever

Really not trying to argue here, just being curious.

What do you find normal levels?

Perhaps in DB so we have a reference to talk about or anything else that suits better than Db?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Really not trying to argue here, just being curious.

What do you find normal levels?

Perhaps in DB so we have a reference to talk about or anything else that suits better than Db?

There are plenty of good master volume tube amps that sound great at sub 75dB. If you like the Suoer Reverb model, a Boogie Fillmore 25 would be my first suggestion over a Tone Master anything by a country mile. And I’m a modeler guy.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Really not trying to argue here, just being curious.

What do you find normal levels?

Perhaps in DB so we have a reference to talk about or anything else that suits better than Db?

I’m afraid I don’t have any dB measurements, but I live in an apartment and am trying to be respectful to neighbors at least 85% of the time

But I’m talking at most loud TV levels down to basically low conversation/whisper volume on a late night

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

There are plenty of good master volume tube amps that sound great at sub 75dB. If you like the Suoer Reverb model, a Boogie Fillmore 25 would be my first suggestion over a Tone Master anything by a country mile. And I’m a modeler guy.

Impressive. Didn’t think that would be possible. But 2000 is a lot of money. Will it be that much better than using a stomp and monitors?

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I’m afraid I don’t have any dB measurements, but I live in an apartment and am trying to be respectful to neighbors at least 85% of the time

But I’m talking at most loud TV levels down to basically low conversation/whisper volume on a late night

 

[Shredder777]

Dude... @Frodebro was absolutely right. You're talking about things you have no idea about.
You also still didn't answer how latency would impact things differently than distance (and yes, I do know the difference...).

It was an analogy. But whatever. I was saying that 44.1 was thought to be acceptable for a long time because people can't hear above 20K, but 48KHz is preferred minimum sampling rate while recording to not lose harmonics which affect notes in lower octaves. So what originally was the standard, and thought to be enough, actually wasn't.

It was an analogy about how what we think is acceptable in 2024 may not be a decade from now.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Impressive. Didn’t think that would be possible. But 2000 is a lot of money. Will it be that much better than using a stomp and monitors?

At low volume it won’t be that much better than using the other option 48 people have already suggested to you - a Stomp into a power amp driving a cab.

 

[Frodebro]

Really not trying to argue here, just being curious.

What do you find normal levels?

Perhaps in DB so we have a reference to talk about or anything else that suits better than Db?

As far as household use is concerned, “normal” volume would be conversation or television levels, so around 60-70dB. Basically, just loud enough so that whatever is coming out of the speaker(s) is just loud enough to mask the acoustic sound of your strings. That’s pretty much the only way I play at home (if not through headphones), but I get the loud stuff out of my system when playing with my band.

 

[Orvillain]

Really not trying to argue here, just being curious.

What do you find normal levels?

Perhaps in DB so we have a reference to talk about or anything else that suits better than Db?

Pretty sure I've asked you before, but what kind of dB's are you talking about??

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

At low volume it won’t be that much better than using the other option 48 people have already suggested to you - a Stomp into a power amp driving a cab.

What? I never said I was unhappy with what I have. You are mixing up people :)

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Pretty sure I've asked you before, but what kind of dB's are you talking about??

I have had a long night being forced in a Christmas dinner and our kids are just too bed.

I am fine with loud television.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

What? I never said I was unhappy with what I have. You are mixing up people :)

I never said you said you were unhappy.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

As far as household use is concerned, “normal” volume would be conversation or television levels, so around 60-70dB. Basically, just loud enough so that whatever is coming out of the speaker(s) is just loud enough to mask the acoustic sound of your strings. That’s pretty much the only way I play at home (if not through headphones), but I get the loud stuff out of my system when playing with my band.

Ahh okay. I am also on that level orrrr a bit louder but that would be during the day, family gone etc