Amp Modeler Tier Ranking

[TubeStack]

Did you at one point try Fractal's Humbuster cabling?

Yes, didn't help.

 

[Sascha Franck]

On the GT-1000/Core, it's a clear step below the Helix or HX Stomp to me. There's like two stereo delays on the GT and I just counted 27 on the Helix. Probably 3-4 times as many amps and cabs on the Helix. 13 stereo reverbs (not counting legacy) on the Helix compared to about half that many on the GT. Drives sound significantly better on the Helix compared to GT. And Helix gets 2-3 major updates per year where the GT has had maybe one significant update since launch?

It's not even close.

For live players, many aspects outside of tons of amps and FX are just as important, sometimes even more important. And regarding those aspects the GT-1000 holds up against the others extremely well.
In case I had to decide on a single all-in-one modeler for live playing, I'd defenitely chose the GT over a Helix and possibly even over an FM9 (not sure about that because of zero firsthand experience).

 

[dean701]

Man, you guys sure are persnickety.

I can completely understand why it would appear that way.
But with so much competition there's no sense spending $2k on a device that you don't enjoy using. It doesn't help that I'm a @#$%ing mental case.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Maybe it's me, but even having never used a modeler (maybe that's the reason- I had no frame of reference), I've never found the Axe III to be complicated. Deep? Sure, if you choose to go there.

I was up and running very fast, but I did read the first several pages of the manual. Watched a few videos to see how to adapt some presets to do cool things, so that wasn't hard. I've even made and tweaked (as in, moved blocks around) from the front panel.

It was a little cumbersome for me doing FW updates the first few times, but other than that...

But I'm not this guy who likes to endlessly fuck with my rig also. I get good tones, then I play.

 

[dean701]

Maybe it's me, but even having never used a modeler (maybe that's the reason- I had no frame of reference), I've never found the Axe III to be complicated. Deep? Sure, if you choose to go there.

I was up and running very fast, but I did read the first several pages of the manual. Watched a few videos to see how to adapt some presets to do cool things, so that wasn't hard. I've even made and tweaked (as in, moved blocks around) from the front panel.

It was a little cumbersome for me doing FW updates the first few times, but other than that...

But I'm not this guy who likes to endlessly fuck with my rig also. I get good tones, then I play.

I agree. I think it gets grossly blown out of proportion. With axe-edit, it's easy. Sure, one can get option paralysis but I'd rather have a platform that can be modified than have a platform where it just has BMT and I can't find the sound I'm looking for.

 

[Desertdweller]

General question, have we reached the 50% point where tube amps are used exclusively at home?

I bet it's beyond 50%. I have amps and modelers, and if I was playing live I'd probably bring my FM9. Either by itself, or with a PS200 or something and a 2x12. I love tube amps, but there's no question where the future is going.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I think it gets grossly blown out of proportion.

Yep. And then you have people who've never used one, shying away from trying it.

 

[Orvillain]

I've actually done it, and it's so good. Replaced a rack system for pennies on the dollar.
View attachment 13914

That looks sick as fuck.

 

[timbuck3]

I can completely understand why it would appear that way.
But with so much competition there's no sense spending $2k on a device that you don't enjoy using. It doesn't help that I'm a @#$%ing mental cas

I bet it's beyond 50%. I have amps and modelers, and if I was playing live I'd probably bring my FM9. Either by itself, or with a PS200 or something and a 2x12. I love tube amps, but there's no question where the future is going.

this is why i think line6 was onto something woth the spidervalve amps..that tube power section matters/

 

[Frodebro]

I don't think the tube power section matters nearly as much with the modern stuff as it did with older generations. I've run through both tube and digital/SS power amps, and although there is a slight difference, it's not something that could be objectively described as better or worse-just different. I realize that the anti digital people would latch onto "different" and insist that it meant "tubes is better, brah," but that's an emotional bias driving their assertion.

 

[timbuck3]

I don't think the tube power section matters nearly as much with the modern stuff as it did with older generations. I've run through both tube and digital/SS power amps, and although there is a slight difference, it's not something that could be objectively described as better or worse-just different. I realize that the anti digital people would latch onto "different" and insist that it meant "tubes is better, brah," but that's an emotional bias driving their assertion.

All i k now is when i took a fender deluxe and Princeton into the guitar room at gc with the tonemaster versions the tm were thinner sounding and dynamic playing was diff to me...I preferred the tube versions tone and feel...but the tm wasnt bad just diff to me. In a mix of course noone could tell..hell if it was a pod in a recording noone could tell either

 

[jellodog]

All i k now is when i took a fender deluxe and Princeton into the guitar room at gc with the tonemaster versions the tm were thinner sounding and dynamic playing was diff to me...I preferred the tube versions tone and feel...

Not all SS power amps are the same.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Anyone who thinks the Gt 1000 core isn't F tier, I have one for sale in excellent shape

 

[timbuck3]

Anyone who thinks the Gt 1000 core isn't F tier, I have one for sale in excellent shape

 

[Orvillain]

I don't think the tube power section matters nearly as much with the modern stuff as it did with older generations. I've run through both tube and digital/SS power amps, and although there is a slight difference, it's not something that could be objectively described as better or worse-just different. I realize that the anti digital people would latch onto "different" and insist that it meant "tubes is better, brah," but that's an emotional bias driving their assertion.

Hmmmm. It isn't really an emotional bias thing for me. I've had them side-by-side. There is something more dynamic and 3D-sounding with a tube poweramp than a solid state one, the same way a Marshall AVT amp doesn't sound as good as my JVM. The preamp might be fine, but there's something lacking in the poweramp.

 

[Orvillain]

Not all SS power amps are the same.

But yes, this is undoubtedly true. Possibly I just haven't tried the right SS amps.

 

[0XI0]

I can't part with my og QC, for some reason i feel like in the not distant future it will still be full of potential but somehow everyone will want one after they've been finally sold off and a different company copies in the UI and feature set it should of had 3 years ago. "wait you actually had one of those??" "it took four minutes for a capture??" "wasn't it supposed to be a hardware plugin platform or something?"

 

[ragingplatypi]

General question, have we reached the 50% point where tube amps are used exclusively at home?

I doubt it. Despite what we all perceive here, there’s still a plethora of functioning mid-tier tube amps in bars that haven’t crapped out yet.

Not to mention the blues dad I just saw at the Feed the Hungry walk creating a 25’ wall-of-sound perimeter between the band and the families with his R9/DRRI/full pedaltrain board. He’ll always be there. Forever.

 

[mbenigni]

Curious to see other takes. Flame away!

Hot take: Having done Kemper, Helix, QC, and now Fractal, I would put QC in Tier 1 without hesitation. The only thing thing that's lacking that's of any consequence is a wider variety of time-based and modulation effects. (E.g. Fractal and HX are much stronger in this regard.) There are fewer amps, but captures compensate here, and what is available sounds great. The editor finally arrived, although I never thought it was necessary to begin with. (Though notably, it did address some of the obligatory cloud/WiFi concerns TGF'ers had expressed.) It won't run plugins (as vaguely promised), but neither will anything else. And then there's the on-board UI, which is more intuitive and about 10x faster to use than anything else I've owned.

Even with an FM3 sitting next to it, it's likely the QC would be my pick if I could only keep one. (I'm probably going to keep both, because the FM3 is also amazing.)

P.S./ Hotter take: The more time I spend with QC/Fractal, the more I feel like I'm boiling cheerios in milk, or whatever that line was, when I try to get my Helixeses to sound as good. But calling HX "tier 2" would be too harsh, because it has strengths of its own, especially in terms of features per dollar in a live rig.

 

[mbenigni]

"wasn't it supposed to be a hardware plugin platform or something?"

The single dumbest, vaguest, most misleading, and ultimately damning thing NDSP ever implied about the QC. They should have dropped this line within milliseconds of release, and focused on getting more native blocks (amps and effects) added to firmware.