Where should I go next?

[Mongillo19]

Every Fractal but the FM3 is also out of stock now

Oh dang! Sigh, let the scalping commence

Price scalping to be clear

 

[mbenigni]

I'm probably over-complicating it, but what I have in my mind is that I want to be able to just create a show order and then cycle through it with one footswitch at a show.

Technically, I could do that with just a Kemper/Fractal/Helix/QC by creating lots of presets and cycling through them. But, then I would have to have a ton of presets, and I'd have to deal with the hassle of keeping all of them in sync. Say I have one amp model I'm using in 20 different places. If I have to update it I have to sync it across 20 presets. You can sort of do that with global blocks in AxeIII, but not nearly as well as just having that amp sitting there where you can reach over and turn a knob while you're playing.

The idea is that for every sound I need there is only one instance of that sound and every place that needs to use it references it from that single place. So instead of having a TubeScreamer block in 30 different presets and then trying to keep them in sync if I make changes, I have one single TubeScreamer and the 30 presets just all point to that single instance.

One single source of truth for every tonal element. Then building presets is simply a matter of selecting the necessary ones and sticking them in the chain.

So then my "preset" is just a MIDI controller sending out the messages to turn on the things I want on. And I can program sequences of these to create song/show orders that I can cycle through easily.

I don't think that approach would make any sense at all for things like cover band gigs, but for gigs where I'm playing the same show in the same order 5 nights a week for 3 months it would be perfect. And any time I need to hire a sub it's really easy for them to learn to control the rig.

You know better than anyone, but this all sounds crazy complicated to me. So much so that I’m inclined to change my vote from KPA to QC. Throw all your amp tones in one preset (that fixes your global amp tone issue) and hang those stomp boxes off the FX loops strategically. (OK, maybe add a MIDI switcher or two to select combinations thereof.) Bob, uncle.

But like I said, I’m a philistine. And probably a Luddite. And it may be telling that I can’t seem to score a gig of my own.

 

[creative360]

I'm probably over-complicating it, but what I have in my mind is that I want to be able to just create a show order and then cycle through it with one footswitch at a show.

Technically, I could do that with just a Kemper/Fractal/Helix/QC by creating lots of presets and cycling through them. But, then I would have to have a ton of presets, and I'd have to deal with the hassle of keeping all of them in sync. Say I have one amp model I'm using in 20 different places. If I have to update it I have to sync it across 20 presets. You can sort of do that with global blocks in AxeIII, but not nearly as well as just having that amp sitting there where you can reach over and turn a knob while you're playing.

The idea is that for every sound I need there is only one instance of that sound and every place that needs to use it references it from that single place. So instead of having a TubeScreamer block in 30 different presets and then trying to keep them in sync if I make changes, I have one single TubeScreamer and the 30 presets just all point to that single instance.

One single source of truth for every tonal element. Then building presets is simply a matter of selecting the necessary ones and sticking them in the chain.

So then my "preset" is just a MIDI controller sending out the messages to turn on the things I want on. And I can program sequences of these to create song/show orders that I can cycle through easily.

I don't think that approach would make any sense at all for things like cover band gigs, but for gigs where I'm playing the same show in the same order 5 nights a week for 3 months it would be perfect. And any time I need to hire a sub it's really easy for them to learn to control the rig.

Someone would have to be paying me BIG bucks for me to gig a rig that takes six paragraphs to explain. And that's coming from someone who takes six paragraphs to ... yknow, say anything.

say anything™

 

[mbenigni]

Someone would have to be paying me BIG bucks for me to gig a rig that takes six paragraphs to explain. And that's coming from someone who takes six paragraphs to ... yknow, say anything.

say anything™

I love that the selling points are “all I have to do” is program 5 MIDI messages, and “it will be so easy to explain to a sub.” @metropolis_4’s subs are all NASA alumni LOL.

Don’t hate me, @metropolis_4 - I’m just having fun here.

 

[metropolis_4]

Someone would have to be paying me BIG bucks for me to gig a rig that takes six paragraphs to explain. And that's coming from someone who takes six paragraphs to ... yknow, say anything.

say anything™

I love that the selling points are “all I have to do” is program 5 MIDI messages, and “it will be so easy to explain to a sub.” @metropolis_4’s subs are all NASA alumni LOL.

Don’t hate me, @metropolis_4 - I’m just having fun here.

Look at it this way:

When I'm in the middle of a gig, this is all I see and all I have to worry about:

A tuner, a volume pedal, and a 2-button footswitch. For a sub, I have a mark in the score at each tone change and all they have to do is hit the same footswitch each time they see the mark and the rig automatically loads everything for them.


And programming MIDI on the HX Stomp is a breeze. Each of the lightning bolts in the top row is an instant MIDI message that is automatically sent when a preset is loaded. You just select one, set the MIDI message to send, then set the next one. Programming 5 of them would take about 2 minutes. Much less time than creating a new preset and creating the signal chain I need inside of it with blocks/settings/parameters.

It's more work and complication on the front end, but the tradeoff is less work and less complication later. And less to think about in the middle of a show.

 

[yeky83]

I'm probably over-complicating it, but what I have in my mind is that I want to be able to just create a show order and then cycle through it with one footswitch at a show.

Technically, I could do that with just a Kemper/Fractal/Helix/QC by creating lots of presets and cycling through them. But, then I would have to have a ton of presets, and I'd have to deal with the hassle of keeping all of them in sync. Say I have one amp model I'm using in 20 different places. If I have to update it I have to sync it across 20 presets. You can sort of do that with global blocks in AxeIII, but not nearly as well as just having that amp sitting there where you can reach over and turn a knob while you're playing.

The idea is that for every sound I need there is only one instance of that sound and every place that needs to use it references it from that single place. So instead of having a TubeScreamer block in 30 different presets and then trying to keep them in sync if I make changes, I have one single TubeScreamer and the 30 presets just all point to that single instance.

One single source of truth for every tonal element. Then building presets is simply a matter of selecting the necessary ones and sticking them in the chain.

So then my "preset" is just a MIDI controller sending out the messages to turn on the things I want on. And I can program sequences of these to create song/show orders that I can cycle through easily.

I don't think that approach would make any sense at all for things like cover band gigs, but for gigs where I'm playing the same show in the same order 5 nights a week for 3 months it would be perfect. And any time I need to hire a sub it's really easy for them to learn to control the rig.

Seemed a bit nuts at first, but I get it now with the single source of truth concept. But seems like you could get it done with one HX Stomp, no? You're either using acoustic instrument processing & Send/Return OR post-amp effects & In/Out, so...

 

[JiveTurkey]

Seemed a bit nuts at first, but I get it now with the single source of truth concept. But seems like you could get it done with one HX Stomp, no? You're either using acoustic instrument processing & Send/Return OR post-amp effects & In/Out, so...

At first


I'm proud of the ambition required to even dream up this rig, let alone implement it successfully. So kudos @metropolis_4 !

 

[Los-D]

We're gonna have to start a new thread.

 

[Gearzilla]

Every Fractal but the FM3 is also out of stock now

 

[laxu]

Kind of, yeah. I'm thinking instead of one big device that does everything I might want to try a modular approach with lots of smaller pieces that each do one thing.

So off to the side somewhere I'd have something like this:

View attachment 2832

Or this:

View attachment 2833


But all I'd have in front of me at my feet would be this:

View attachment 2834

Why not just use a Helix Floor and combine that with the pedals? You could simplify it greatly, forget the tuner and cut out at least one ML5. Also might want to wait for the Morningstar ML10X to further simplify things.

 

[laxu]

As for CorOS 2.0... all I personally need is to be able to find captures in a way that isn't literally insane. I get where footswitch assignments are grossly underdeveloped, but I've long since worked around that. Beyond that, I don't really get where CorOS is so much a mess vs. any other product out there. It doesn't support NDSP plugins, but that's not a thing that the competition is even trying to achieve; it's just a stupid promise that NDSP can't figure out how to walk back.

If 2.0 is half what it's been made out to be (and it actually turns up LOL), the QC is going to be aces. But I don't see it mattering much - tons of people already love it, and tons of people will continue hating it, regardless. It's kind of a shame.

I don't really care about the plugin compatibility or lack of an editor. Those are "nice to have" things at best, even if the editor is well overdue. I feel a lot of these complaints come from people who have never used the unit or just have a chip on their shoulder about NeuralDSP because they don't like their marketing approach or whatever.

I like the QC and want NeuralDSP to succeed with it but as said, it will take time for them to get there as their development pace has been way worse than I anticipated. When I got the QC at release, as an eternal optimist, I thought that by Christmas they would have had the editor and hybrid mode out but here we are a whole year later and it hasn't moved much. Still missing a proper UI for the graphic EQ too and the content management is a bit of a mess (not that it is particularly good on the competition either).

Meanwhile the competition is catching up in some areas like Line6 offering a similar cab sim system (even if the touchscreen is still better for operating it), Fractal on track to make one too while Amplitube is hitting the profiles/captures part hard with the ToneX.

 

[mbenigni]

I don't really care about the plugin compatibility or lack of an editor. Those are "nice to have" things at best, even if the editor is well overdue. I feel a lot of these complaints come from people who have never used the unit or just have a chip on their shoulder about NeuralDSP because they don't like their marketing approach or whatever.

I like the QC and want NeuralDSP to succeed with it but as said, it will take time for them to get there as their development pace has been way worse than I anticipated. When I got the QC at release, as an eternal optimist, I thought that by Christmas they would have had the editor and hybrid mode out but here we are a whole year later and it hasn't moved much. Still missing a proper UI for the graphic EQ too and the content management is a bit of a mess (not that it is particularly good on the competition either).

Meanwhile the competition is catching up in some areas like Line6 offering a similar cab sim system (even if the touchscreen is still better for operating it), Fractal on track to make one too while Amplitube is hitting the profiles/captures part hard with the ToneX.

Agree on all counts.

A proper GUI for the graphic EQ is such a no-brainer. I'm surprised more people aren't complaining about that. Content management is a somewhat unique challenge on the QC because of its support for both models and (an indeterminate number of) captures. But I don't think NDSP could have fumbled any harder on this if they'd tried.

Competition coming along with similar cab blocks... there's the GUI aspect, where they're all poised to match or better NDSP's work, but I still prefer the sound of the QC's cabs overall. Not that I've done extensive, scientific testing or anything. I just seem to have a better time playing the QC vs. the HX stuff, and haven't really been getting on with ToneX at all. I'm sure it's just a matter of putting the work in and familiarizing oneself, but you can only serve so many masters.

 

[mbenigni]

Why not just use a Helix Floor and combine that with the pedals? You could simplify it greatly, forget the tuner and cut out at least one ML5. Also might want to wait for the Morningstar ML10X to further simplify things.

I think he has an interest in keeping the board in front of him really minimal (i.e. tuner, couple of switches, expression pedal), but you could make the same case for a Helix Rack behind him. That's 4FX loops "for free", and I'm sure HX could replace at least a couple of those "too hip to be familiar to me" stompboxes.

(Helix Rack + JMP-1?)

 

[metropolis_4]

Seemed a bit nuts at first, but I get it now with the single source of truth concept. But seems like you could get it done with one HX Stomp, no? You're either using acoustic instrument processing & Send/Return OR post-amp effects & In/Out, so...

I could do it with one HX Stomp, but that would mean my MIDI controller would have to be tied to some signal processing and that would complicate it because then instead of just programming the MIDI I would also need to duplicate all of the acoustic processing.

Why not just use a Helix Floor and combine that with the pedals? You could simplify it greatly, forget the tuner and cut out at least one ML5. Also might want to wait for the Morningstar ML10X to further simplify things.

I could combine lots of these things, but once I do it I lose the “single instance” concept since those things are now bound together, so I lose some ability to change them independent of each other.

The concept here was to try to keep everything separated and single purpose

I think he has an interest in keeping the board in front of him really minimal (i.e. tuner, couple of switches, expression pedal), but you could make the same case for a Helix Rack behind him. That's 4FX loops "for free", and I'm sure HX could replace at least a couple of those "too hip to be familiar to me" stompboxes.

(Helix Rack + JMP-1?)

This recent experience running the effects send of my DSL straight to an IR in the Stomp has made me really think again about maybe a JMP-1 or a Tri-Axis!

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think he has an interest in keeping the board in front of him really minimal (i.e. tuner, couple of switches, expression pedal), but you could make the same case for a Helix Rack behind him. That's 4FX loops "for free", and I'm sure HX could replace at least a couple of those "too hip to be familiar to me" stompboxes.

(Helix Rack + JMP-1?)

Love the rack! Plus huge space savings vs. monolith board.

 

[creative360]

keeping the board in front of him really minimal

I love having nothing but a couple of cheap, durable exp pedals in front or to the side of me. And sure in the studio there’s a strong argument for Zens and klones and any other thing that inspires.

But no matter how well-wired a board is, it’s almost always why people are standing around waiting for a show to begin, as the band’s guitarist, down on bended knee, furiously attempts to identify which of his thirty or forty cables has become dislodged during transport or load-in.

For one-offs or humble touring, so many moving parts would not make my life better. And technically and musically, it sort of goes against the (my) spirit of embracing this gear.

But seriously, kudos for deeply exploiting the potential of all this functionality. For a two-month residency where the rig stands still and there’s a relationship with the sound man, how great to get exactly what you want.

ymmv

 

[laxu]

I could combine lots of these things, but once I do it I lose the “single instance” concept since those things are now bound together, so I lose some ability to change them independent of each other.

The concept here was to try to keep everything separated and single purpose

I was thinking that if you are going to have two HX Stomps, why not have a Helix Floor (or Rack) which is sort of like two HX Stomps in one. I can imagine trying to manage two HX Stomps would get annoying quickly. Not sure if HX Edit supports connecting more than one at a time or not, having to make sure you have the right presets and latest fw updated on each and so on.

Rack with a pedal drawer might actually be the most practical solution here.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I was thinking that if you are going to have two HX Stomps, why not have a Helix Floor (or Rack) which is sort of like two HX Stomps in one. I can imagine trying to manage two HX Stomps would get annoying quickly. Not sure if HX Edit supports connecting more than one at a time or not, having to make sure you have the right presets and latest fw updated on each and so on.

Rack with a pedal drawer might actually be the most practical solution here.

Just edit the presets with a text editor and paste them into the device!

 

[metropolis_4]

Love the rack! Plus huge space savings vs. monolith board.

I actually started thinking this yesterday too. Once I thought about not needing all of that at my feet I started realizing a rack would be a much better way to organize and carry this around.

I started drawing up ideas of a rack mounted Kemper with two drawers - one for pre-amp effects and one for post-amp effects.

I think I could do it in an 8u rolling rack

I was thinking that if you are going to have two HX Stomps, why not have a Helix Floor (or Rack) which is sort of like two HX Stomps in one. I can imagine trying to manage two HX Stomps would get annoying quickly. Not sure if HX Edit supports connecting more than one at a time or not, having to make sure you have the right presets and latest fw updated on each and so on.

Rack with a pedal drawer might actually be the most practical solution here.

If I use 1 Helix instead of 2 Stomps then I lose the ability to keep my MIDI controller separated from all signal processing.

As soon as my MIDI controller begins to handle signal processing it ties those together and I can’t change one without the other. Instead of just managing MIDI my presets would also have to include signal processing that would then need to be duplicated in multiple presets, and that defeats the purpose.

Just edit the presets with a text editor and paste them into the device!

With VIM in a bash terminal!

 

[metropolis_4]

I love having nothing but a couple of cheap, durable exp pedals in front or to the side of me. And sure in the studio there’s a strong argument for Zens and klones and any other thing that inspires.

But no matter how well-wired a board is, it’s almost always why people are standing around waiting for a show to begin, as the band’s guitarist, down on bended knee, furiously attempts to identify which of his thirty or forty cables has become dislodged during transport or load-in.

For one-offs or humble touring, so many moving parts would not make my life better. And technically and musically, it sort of goes against the (my) spirit of embracing this gear.

But seriously, kudos for deeply exploiting the potential of all this functionality. For a two-month residency where the rig stands still and there’s a relationship with the sound man, how great to get exactly what you want.

ymmv

I don’t think I would ever use something like this for one-offs or simple gigs.

But for something like a theater production where I’m playing the same show in the same order several nights a week for several months it makes sense to me