Where should I go next?

[mbenigni]

Love the rack! Plus huge space savings vs. monolith board.

I think I could do it in an 8u rolling rack

 

[mbenigni]

This recent experience running the effects send of my DSL straight to an IR in the Stomp has made me really think again about maybe a JMP-1 or a Tri-Axis!

I'd be all about the Tri-Axis (if I could find and afford one.) But you seemed really happy with the DSL, so the JMP-1 came to mind.

I still feel like a "kitchen sink" HX preset utilizing two independent DSP paths, along with some global MIDI assignments, could get this job done in a more straightforward way.

 

[metropolis_4]

The thing is though the rack takes up less floor space, and it has wheels and a handle so I can just roll it around like luggage.

I'd be all about the Tri-Axis (if I could find and afford one.) But you seemed really happy with the DSL, so the JMP-1 came to mind.

I still feel like a "kitchen sink" HX preset utilizing two independent DSP paths, along with some global MIDI assignments, could get this job done in a more straightforward way.

If I went with a "kitchen sink" preset in one device I'd lose the ability to step through show order with a single footswitch. I'd have to use individual stomps or a combination of those and snapshots, and I would be limited to fewer amp tones to squeeze it all in.

And I would still need either separate presets for acoustic instruments, or a separate MIDI controller to handle the instrument switching

 

[mbenigni]

If I went with a "kitchen sink" preset in one device I'd lose the ability to step through show order with a single footswitch. I'd have to use individual stomps or a combination of those and snapshots, and I would be limited to fewer amp tones to squeeze it all in.

And I would still need either separate presets for acoustic instruments, or a separate MIDI controller to handle the instrument switching

This is probably true - again you know best. But I wouldn't call it a given. It's more of a quantitative problem than a qualitative one. You'd definitely want to go with Snapshots (which I believe will accommodate the one switch/ series of Snapshots concept), and you'd definitely want electric effects on one path and acoustic effects on the other. It comes down to how many blocks you want/need on each path. But this brings us back to how you'll be leveraging the external preamp(s) if any. MIDI per Snapshot is "free" in terms of block count and DSP usage.

 

[Jarick]

Ok. This is where I think I'm going. Tell me what you think about this plan.

View attachment 2829


So:

• Electric, and all other instruments go into the ML5 #1
• Output from ML5 goes to the VP with the tuner in its loop. This gives me one single place to mute/tune and control level for all instruments.
• Output of VP goes to ML5 #2.
  • For all acoustic instruments, this sends the signal directly to the HX Stomp XL RETURN
    • HX Stomp XL handles all processing for acoustic instruments, and sends them out the SEND to the DI at the top right
    • The DI is 2 DI's stacked with a volume knob on top. #1 goes to FOH, volume knob is before #2 which goes to my "FRFR" monitor so I can control its level without changing the level I send to FOH
  • For electric:
    • the Deep Six is in one loop so it can either be turned on/off with MIDI, or I can control it manually, and it is only active for electric.
    • Cry Baby is in another loop for the same purpose.
    • Output goes to ML5 #3
• ML5 #3 has all of the stomps in its loops so I can control which ones are on with MIDI.
  • These are "pedal" specific drive/fuzz sounds, boosts, and an analog delay so I can have one delay before the amp.
• Output of ML5 #3 goes to the input of the "amp" (which could be my DSL40, a Kemper, a QC, or anything else that makes amp tones)
• The effects loop of the "amp" goes to the HX Stomp XL in/out and it contains all post-amp effects
• Output of the amp goes to FOH

The HX Stomp in the bottom left Is just acting as a master MIDI controller. It's set up for the switches to go up/down presets. Each preset sends MIDI signals to:

• ML5 #1 to select the active instrument
• ML5 #2 to route for acoustic/electric instruments
• ML5 #3 to select which pre-amp effects are on
• HX Stomp XL to select either the appropriate acoustic instrument preset, or the post-amp effects for electric
• "Amp" to change channels/solo boost/etc

This seems complicated, but it actually makes preset creation much faster and simpler because I only need to have 1 of each sound, and creating presets is just a matter of programming 5 MIDI messages in one controller.

For every new preset I need all I have to do is program 5 MIDI messages in the HX Stomp, and I'm done. Then I create a show order of presets in the HX Stomp and all I have to do during a show is hit one button to advance to the next preset.

So during shows I won't have to do anything but press one footswitch at each change. And the HX Stomp preset names give me an easy way to see exactly where I'm at in my show order

Honestly, with that much stuff running plus a Kemper/amp, I'd build around an Axe FX 3. The Axe 3 will have more than enough power and flexibility in the routing to manage simultaneous electric and acoustic processing, and should be able to handle MIDI switching as well. You should be able to eliminate some of the pedals as well, unless you're super fussy about drive tones.

You could set up a rack with the Axe 3 and if you need some pedals, get a rack drawer with PS, then tuck those away. Get the Kemper Toaster so you can swap that out for the DSL head or whatever else you want and aren't tied to having a huge rack. You can have something like an FC-6 or FC-12 with a couple expression pedals on the floor.

 

[mbenigni]

Honestly, with that much stuff running plus a Kemper/amp, I'd build around an Axe FX 3. The Axe 3 will have more than enough power and flexibility in the routing to manage simultaneous electric and acoustic processing, and should be able to handle MIDI switching as well. You should be able to eliminate some of the pedals as well, unless you're super fussy about drive tones.

You could set up a rack with the Axe 3 and if you need some pedals, get a rack drawer with PS, then tuck those away. Get the Kemper Toaster so you can swap that out for the DSL head or whatever else you want and aren't tied to having a huge rack. You can have something like an FC-6 or FC-12 with a couple expression pedals on the floor.

This started out with so much promise, and then slowly went ballistic again. You folks are not minimalists.

I like the AxeFX3 idea, though. Just fiddle with the Performance Mode controls until everything you typically need is front and center. Same difference, as it were.

 

[Jarick]

This started out with so much promise, and then slowly went ballistic again. You folks are not minimalists.

I like the AxeFX3 idea, though. Just fiddle with the Performance Mode controls until everything you typically need is front and center. Same difference, as it were.

In my defense, Axe FX 3 with a few pedals seems more minimalist than having three different MIDI switches and two HX Stomps

Honestly though, John Petrucci replaced a fridge-sized rack with an Axe FX 3 to handle his effects and has a similar setup where he runs the Axe 3 for effects with some pedals and his signature amp for the tone.

 

[Fireproof]

I’m speechless.

 

[metropolis_4]

Top is rack shelf of effects that run pre-amp
Kemper rack
Bottom is rack shelf of effects that run post-amp.

The HX Stomp is the master MIDI controller, the ML5 at the bottom is my instrument router.

Then I have this out front at my feet:

 

[la szum]

This started out with so much promise, and then slowly went ballistic again. You folks are not minimalists.

I like the AxeFX3 idea, though. Just fiddle with the Performance Mode controls until everything you typically need is front and center. Same difference, as it were.

Yup. This thread feels like a relationship that I didn't know was going to get this complicated,

and that I never would have signed up for had I known ahead of time.

 

[metropolis_4]

This is probably true - again you know best. But I wouldn't call it a given. It's more of a quantitative problem than a qualitative one. You'd definitely want to go with Snapshots (which I believe will accommodate the one switch/ series of Snapshots concept), and you'd definitely want electric effects on one path and acoustic effects on the other. It comes down to how many blocks you want/need on each path. But this brings us back to how you'll be leveraging the external preamp(s) if any. MIDI per Snapshot is "free" in terms of block count and DSP usage.

But then I'm limited to 8 snapshots, so I'd have to build a preset-per-song to handle that, and then I run into the same issue where I have the same sounds duplicated across multiple presets, I have to keep them in sync, balance the levels, take more time to create new ones, etc.

Honestly, with that much stuff running plus a Kemper/amp, I'd build around an Axe FX 3. The Axe 3 will have more than enough power and flexibility in the routing to manage simultaneous electric and acoustic processing, and should be able to handle MIDI switching as well. You should be able to eliminate some of the pedals as well, unless you're super fussy about drive tones.

You could set up a rack with the Axe 3 and if you need some pedals, get a rack drawer with PS, then tuck those away. Get the Kemper Toaster so you can swap that out for the DSL head or whatever else you want and aren't tied to having a huge rack. You can have something like an FC-6 or FC-12 with a couple expression pedals on the floor.

The one thing that makes me lean Kemper rather than AxeFX is the instant gapless changes between as many amp sounds as I want

 

[JT]

Top is rack shelf of effects that run pre-amp
Kemper rack
Bottom is rack shelf of effects that run post-amp.

The HX Stomp is the master MIDI controller, the ML5 at the bottom is my instrument router.

View attachment 2845


Then I have this out front at my feet:

View attachment 2846

I like the cut of your jib. But how do you or the sub know what song you are on?

 

[mbenigni]

In my defense, Axe FX 3 with a few pedals seems more minimalist than having three different MIDI switches and two HX Stomps

Like I said, it started out with so much promise. But by the time you were done he (also) had a rack full of pedals, a Kemper toaster, a controller up front, a DSL (to keep his hands warm, I guess?) Hooray for modelers - so convenient!

EDIT: To be fair, I just noticed that @Jarick mentioned the Kemper replacing the DSL.

 

[mbenigni]

But then I'm limited to 8 snapshots, so I'd have to build a preset-per-song to handle that, and then I run into the same issue where I have the same sounds duplicated across multiple presets, I have to keep them in sync, balance the levels, take more time to create new ones, etc.



The one thing that makes me lean Kemper rather than AxeFX is the instant gapless changes between as many amp sounds as I want

I forgot about the 8 snapshots limitation. I think QC would present the same (or similar) issue.

You very clearly need (at least one) Kemper. :)

 

[JT]

I forgot about the 8 snapshots limitation. I think QC would present the same (or similar) issue.

You very clearly need (at least one) Kemper. :)

Helix Rack controller is FANTASTIC. So much visual feedback.

 

[mbenigni]

Yup. This thread feels like a relationship that I didn't know was going to get this complicated,

and that I never would have signed up for had I known ahead of time.

And yet these are my favorite threads. It's like doing a really clever crossword puzzle and spending someone else's money at the same time.

 

[mbenigni]

Helix Rack controller is FANTASTIC. So much visual feedback.

This is a bit of a non-sequitur (i.e. doesn't help @metropolis_4 any) but yes, absolutely!

 

[JT]

This is a bit of a non-sequitur (i.e. doesn't help @metropolis_4 any) but yes, absolutely!

 

[Jarick]

But then I'm limited to 8 snapshots, so I'd have to build a preset-per-song to handle that, and then I run into the same issue where I have the same sounds duplicated across multiple presets, I have to keep them in sync, balance the levels, take more time to create new ones, etc.



The one thing that makes me lean Kemper rather than AxeFX is the instant gapless changes between as many amp sounds as I want

Well honestly I was thinking both, as you had two Stomps plus a Kemper/amp and three MIDI switchers.

If you used the Axe 3 for the carbon copy, a couple boosts, and the compressor, you could likely get rid of all the pedals and switchers except for maybe the fuzz (and maybe one other drive). The Axe 3 should be able to handle all the switching for the Kemper too via MIDI. You could probably sub in the Helix rack for the Axe as well if you prefer that.

I suppose another option would be to use something like a Morningstar or RJM controller to also send the MIDI data to control the other devices. Again that seems simpler to me...

 

[fretworn]