What do you want from a modeller that the current options don't give you???

[FuzzyAce]

just in Revalver (plugin) as far as i know, you can tweak the value of every little part hanging off of every tube, part, phase inverter and every gain pot, and tone stack EQ center freq and slope. not just inside the amps tho, you can schematic tweak the other effects too (distortion pedals). I think the only other place you can do that while playing through it is LiveSpice. Idk if LiveSpice is real time, don't have it just heard about it

Thanks, I'll look into it. I do know of Spice but haven't tried LiveSpice.

 

[paisleywookiee]

This is my fear as well and that would be another big loss - a manufacturer that does something different from the rest of the market. The last news about the Amp X is that we will get more info at NAMM in January. I guess they will do a "paper launch" then, but actual store availability might take some time. They seem to be pushing people to get the Amp 1 models atm, but that might be just standard holiday sales stuff.

I'm pretty sure it won't satisfy someone who uses a current Fractal or Line6 device, but I might still be the kind of user who will go for it.

For me whether I have 3 amp models or 300 makes little difference, as long as at least one of them is great to me. I like the idea of having everything, but realistically have a pretty narrow set of things that are "must haves". Give me a good Marshall style overdrive from the amp, into a Greenback style cab, with a good compressor, boost, tape delay and plate reverb and I'm going to be happy.

Being able to plug into a real cab or fullrange systems without jumping through any extra hoops like finding the "perfect" poweramp is convenient. For cab sims it won't do the virtual movable mic things, but I thought a good number of the BluGuitar Blubox cab sims were really good - I really should have made IRs of them when I had one, or just kept the box since it was simple, convenient and I bought it real cheap.

I’d also want to clarify I do NOT want to see Thomas go out of business. I think the Amp1 is a tremendous device, both in terms of tone as well as design. He is a big asset to the industry.

 

[Gearzilla]

A block that’s a plugin wrapper.

 

[0XI0]

A block that’s a plugin wrapper.

that would be a game changer. man, running your plugins on hardware.

anyways...

 

[Mongillo19]

that would be a game changer. man, running your plugins on hardware.

anyways...

Well too bad the QC doesn't despite marketing that it would at launch.....3 years ago now (maybe, idk how long it's been but still).

Hopefully SOON

 

[Sascha Franck]

A block that’s a plugin wrapper.

Very likely never gonna happen - at least not in our lifetime.

But then, if one really wanted, one could easily use a laptop or, say, Mac Mini. Bit of tinkering involved, plus it would turn out to be quite expensive, still pretty doable. If I had the funds, I'd defenitely build such a setup.

 

[Bob Zaod]

I thought this could be fun. What do you want from a modeller that none of the current options give you?

Helix. Wireless BT for editing on any platform including Android. Lots complain about it on the GX-100 and it is slow to connect but once connected it works fine. If I had HX Edit wirelessly with Android, I'd be over the moon. There is a way to do it but it's kinda silly. Have to set up a remote control session on the host PC and connect to it with my Samsung tab via VNC or similar. It's not super stable and lags on top of that. Yes I have tried a few different remote options, all with varying degrees of not so good.

 

[paisleywookiee]

As much as I detest pedals that require a phone editor, modelers, due to their complexities, modelers are a different world IMO. There, I think a phone/tablet editor is extremely advantageous. I think Fractal can improve with their on-device UI a bit, but I think an official app with BT connectivity would go much further.

I can tell you what I do not want in a modeler. Skewmorphism. It’s a hilarious waste of a screen real estate, and I really don’t need the warm and fuzzy feeling of seeing a cartoon graphic of an amp, to make me feel good about what I’m using.

 

[laxu]

I can tell you what I do not want in a modeler. Skewmorphism. It’s a hilarious waste of a screen real estate, and I really don’t need the warm and fuzzy feeling of seeing a cartoon graphic of an amp, to make me feel good about what I’m using.

I like what Line6 is doing with the Helix where there's a little icon of the amp or pedal - or a bigger one with the otherwise not that useful grid view in HX Edit / Helix Native. It gives a little guide towards what the amp or pedal is based on, but then doesn't impart any skeumorphism to how operating the model works.

If they want to give this sort of cues, to me they should end at the "knobs look a bit different and there's a different background color" level, rather than painstakingly realistic renditions of tolex and grillcloth.

I think Mercuriall has the right idea - you get that "this is a Marshall" vibe, but without wasting a lot of space on fluff.

Speaking of right ideas. Noise gate, overdrive, cab sim adjustment, a few advanced controls and the main amp controls all in one view is a pretty lovely way to combine it all.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I'm not great at dialing in presets. But I have had 2 presets that what I was looking for was somewhere between the 2.

I'd like a way to compare 2 presets side by side in the editor. Switch to a different page, and they both switch, so I can see at a glance, which parameters are similar, and which are different.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I like what Line6 is doing with the Helix where there's a little icon of the amp or pedal - or a bigger one with the otherwise not that useful grid view in HX Edit / Helix Native. It gives a little guide towards what the amp or pedal is based on, but then doesn't impart any skeumorphism to how operating the model works.

If they want to give this sort of cues, to me they should end at the "knobs look a bit different and there's a different background color" level, rather than painstakingly realistic renditions of tolex and grillcloth.

I think Mercuriall has the right idea - you get that "this is a Marshall" vibe, but without wasting a lot of space on fluff.

Speaking of right ideas. Noise gate, overdrive, cab sim adjustment, a few advanced controls and the main amp controls all in one view is a pretty lovely way to combine it all.

I agree with you on the Helix stuff, where it’s the little icon; that’s perfect balance. And I also agree that Mercurial gets it right. Very good balance, and it being a plugin differentiates things a bit too. I think when you‘re talking plugin on a 13” laptop and larger, “skewmorphism” can get more of a pass. But there’s just no place for it on anything smaller than 10” screens.

 

[jay mitchell]

I get what you're saying, but I mean a scenario like in a real amp schematic. The ability to create your own from scratch -- that means the order and value of caps, resistors, tube types, voltages, and of course controlling how the gain stages work along the signal path. A complete amp designing, modeling platform, from input to output.

I've played that kind of game with physical amps, and I found I was able to make all the mods I wanted in the Axe-Fx virtual amp block, in a lot less time than it takes to change circuit components and reroute physical signal paths.

I know this is probably not a realistic idea at this point, and the level of modeling involved would be crazy and resource hungry, so not sure it's currently possible or worth it.

Whether it is practially feasible is moot IMO. The potential market for a purely component-based virtual amplifier that exposes all the component parameters to the user is almost certainly very small. Allowing a user to alter power tube bias, power supply sag, negative feedback, transformer match, etc., is already available, and relatively few users report fooling with those parameters.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I've played that kind of game with pyhsical amps, and I found I was able to make all the mods I wanted in the Axe-Fx virtual amp block, in a lot less time than it takes to change circuit components and reroute physical signal paths.


Whether it is practially feasible is moot IMO. The potential market for a purely component-based virtual amplifier that exposes all the component parameters to the user is almost certainly very small. Allowing a user to alter power tube bias, power supply sag, negative feedback, transformer match, etc., is already available, and relatively few users report fooling with those parameters.

This is basically where I end up as well. I enjoy modding and building real amps, not as much lately as I'd like to, so the idea of a virtual platform intrigues me even though I know it's probably not realistic in today's market.

 

[laxu]

Whether it is practially feasible is moot IMO. The potential market for a purely component-based virtual amplifier that exposes all the component parameters to the user is almost certainly very small. Allowing a user to alter power tube bias, power supply sag, negative feedback, transformer match, etc., is already available, and relatively few users report fooling with those parameters.

Absolutely. I've played with all that stuff on Fractal and it's fun, but some of it is so extremely subtle that I'm left feeling "why is this control even here?" Or it's effects apply in some configuration I'd never use with any real amp. I also almost never got results that actually sounded better than the original amp model, or just picking a different amp that has a similar lineage. It's pretty clear I don't have what it takes to be an amp designer.

With real amps I have often encountered "oh I love this amp, but it would be even better if it only did X" when you are limited by what you have in terms of controls. And when manufacturers do offer those extra adjustments, you fiddle with them for a time and then just figure "ok, these are the positions where it sounds best to me" and leave them, never to be tweaked again. On digital modelers you just pick a different model, or cab etc.

 

[BenIfin]

This is the other end of the Spectrum - and it wont happen for economies of scale / profit margin reasons .... but I am a big believer in the Boss / Line 6 "original Amps" approach.

I think this is the future ... I get the obsession / business need / consumer "want" to have "perfect" copies of real amps ....... I just want to be able to craft my own great tones as simply and quickly as possible.

Think something like a "Mini-Stomp" with only L6 Originals on it -or- something like a revised Boss IR200 with just the X -series, Boss "originals" and Katana Amps in it.

No efx ..... just IR loading and some Reverb.

Grab an Exp Pedal and say something like a HXFX ..... done.

Give it good I/O Analog circuitry, variable input impedance, Midi I/O and good I/O connections.

Just my 2c.

Ben

 

[0XI0]

Speaking of right ideas

gain master and level all same page right next to each other, always and everywhere. please for the love of god

 

[ragingplatypi]

One more thing, I would rather see a move to multiple screens with unique purposes than one big touch screen.

I’d like to think I would pay for that. I think the more economical solution is probably going to be GUI design, and universal blocks/functions based on feedback I’ve seen here and Ideascale. Basically splitting one screen intelligently.

 

[norminal]

but I am a big believer in the Boss / Line 6 "original Amps" approach.

I agree. We seem to be so obsessed with the accuracy of a model of an amp that we’ve likely never even played before.

 

[Frodebro]

I agree. We seem to be so obsessed with the accuracy of a model of an amp that we’ve likely never even played before.

That was a necessity in the early days of modeling, and basically the main selling point. Now the competition is to be the company with the most realest modeling.

 

[BenIfin]

I agree. We seem to be so obsessed with the accuracy of a model of an amp that we’ve likely never even played before.

That was a necessity in the early days of modeling, and basically the main selling point. Now the competition is to be the company with the most realest modeling.

Not to de-rail the OP ....... but yep .... I look at it this way .... the people at Fractal and L6 are dead-set brilliant at this .... but i.m.h.o it is an unending "fools errand" ... no disrespect intended.

How many people have owned an AC30 + a Plexi + a Tweed Deluxe + a Mesa ...... at the same time...... I'd guess probably %99.99 haven't.

In my +45 years of playing ... I had a Dual Showman Head ... then a Boogie Mk3 ... then an AC30HW Head ... then a DC30 Clone ...... never more than one at a time ..... and I always got great ones with the Amp I had and 3 or 4 Boss Pedals all in series in front of the Amp ...... yes - tone suck ... yes mods and rev's in front of the Amp ...... heretic ........ sacrilege !!!!

Yet everyone wants the "best" of each model but have never ever even played one .... and have no idea what they sound like ....... and when they have, the Amp has been on the ground behind them blasting into the back of their knee's ..... then they finally tilt the Amp up to ear level to hear it better and then run screaming and crying the other way because is sounds so horrific :)

Anyway ... lost my train of thought ... back to the OP / Thread :)

Ben