Updated with Clips: Why is everyone so down on using lots of amp models at gigs?
- Thread starter metropolis_4
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That and I know in my case, failing at pulling something off is often the first step to getting it right.
metropolis_4
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That’s exactly the point I was hoping to make.
It doesn’t have to sound jarring, it doesn’t have to be a burden on the sound guy, and it doesn’t have to take forever to set up. So if you want to do it go for it
TubeStack
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While I don’t use a lot of different amp models at a gig, I can see how one could EQ and/or set them up so it’s not a jarring experience.
Especially with my recent experiences with my FM9, it's made me realize how they're all related and similar, ie. there's only so many ways you can spin a guitar signal, and you can get a lot of seemingly different amps to sound quite similar to each other.
Getting them too similar defeats the purpose of using different amps of course, but also shows there's a middle ground if you really want to use this approach.
Especially with my recent experiences with my FM9, it's made me realize how they're all related and similar, ie. there's only so many ways you can spin a guitar signal, and you can get a lot of seemingly different amps to sound quite similar to each other.
Getting them too similar defeats the purpose of using different amps of course, but also shows there's a middle ground if you really want to use this approach.
metropolis_4
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I think it's really similar to using different types of guitars. At certain settings a Strat and a Les Paul could sound almost identical, at other settings they sound completely different. There's a lot more overlap than many people realize.
At one point in that recording I changed from a JCM800 to a Deluxe Reverb in the middle of the same line and you'd hardly notice unless you listened for it. And it didn't take hours of tweaking to get those sounds so similar. I pulled up an amp, "eyeballed" the EQ, gain, and level, and started recording.
SoundCloud's servers seem to be down at the moment, when they're back up I'll go back through and list the times where each amp is used.
metropolis_4
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If anyone is interested here's the breakdown of which amps you hear at which time in that track:
0:00 - Plexi
0:07 - AC30
0:11 - 5E3 Tweed Deluxe
0:22 - Mark IV
0:37 - JTM45
0:46 - Invective (guitar 1)
0:48 - Cartographer (guitar 2 - arpeggios part)
1:06 - BE100 (guitar 1)
1:06 - JCM800 (guitar 2 - arpeggios)
1:17 - AC15 (guitar 1)
1:17 - Deluxe Reverb (guitar 2)
1:32 - DC30 (guitar 1 - high part)
1:32 - Rockerverb (guitar 2 - low part)
HX Stomp XL: IN-> Amp Block -> IR -> LA Comp -> OUT
Straight into Garageband on an iPad, no extra EQ or processing.
I tried to throw a few "jarring" back to back examples in that I saw people mention in this thread (such as Mesa to Marshall)
0:00 - Plexi
0:07 - AC30
0:11 - 5E3 Tweed Deluxe
0:22 - Mark IV
0:37 - JTM45
0:46 - Invective (guitar 1)
0:48 - Cartographer (guitar 2 - arpeggios part)
1:06 - BE100 (guitar 1)
1:06 - JCM800 (guitar 2 - arpeggios)
1:17 - AC15 (guitar 1)
1:17 - Deluxe Reverb (guitar 2)
1:32 - DC30 (guitar 1 - high part)
1:32 - Rockerverb (guitar 2 - low part)
HX Stomp XL: IN-> Amp Block -> IR -> LA Comp -> OUT
Straight into Garageband on an iPad, no extra EQ or processing.
I tried to throw a few "jarring" back to back examples in that I saw people mention in this thread (such as Mesa to Marshall)
la szum
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Same Cab/IR throughout?
Bruce
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I think there’s a marked difference between using different amps with the same IR resulting in similar tones as opposed to crafting different tones to match original recordings which would likely be far more problematic in a band as you match a wide variation of frequency changes.
I was pretty surprised how similar my physical amps sounded thru the same IR.
I was pretty surprised how similar my physical amps sounded thru the same IR.
metropolis_4
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Yeah. I think it was the York VX15 112 Blue
Yeah, trying to do it to match tones on original recordings is exactly what I was saying I think is the wrong way to do it.
But if you think of them like stompboxes - as another way to get different textures/qualities of tone - it can work very well
GuitarDave
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It's not specifically about the amp types. It's about inexperienced players not knowing how their tones fit a stage and FOH mix.
Changing tones is never a problem if you know how to work your sounds. Switching from a mid-scooped high gain tone to the opposite can work.
Too much low or high end swamping the mix because you don't have your cuts set properly is more of an issue.
That said I don't find it all that musically necessary or beneficial for the styles I typically play.
Changing tones is never a problem if you know how to work your sounds. Switching from a mid-scooped high gain tone to the opposite can work.
Too much low or high end swamping the mix because you don't have your cuts set properly is more of an issue.
That said I don't find it all that musically necessary or beneficial for the styles I typically play.
creative360
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Since way back with the Kemper I’ve often used one dry gritty vintage Supro profile for riffs and rhythm and then cleaner Fender or Dumble or Red Plate or Marshall profiles for single note melodies. Nothing jarring about their sonic relationship to one another.
Once I did a re-amping test to find “best” tones for a particular melody only to discover how amps with truly different dna sound so similar on record. It was eye-opening. You could literally change amps during the solo without causing sonic red lights. So it’s ultimately more about playing experience—how a particular tone feels for cutting the track or performing.
But while it really doesn’t matter, and if it sounds good there’s nothing wrong with using fifteen amps in a single track, I don’t see the point.
Maybe that’s because so many of my heroes have gotten historically best guitar tones using the volume knob on the guitar, few or zero effects, and a single amp that imparts something special. Yes yes yes of course there are icons who exploited sophisticated boards, but they really do fall into a small minority in my book.
Even in studio scenarios, or cover bands, the busiest purveyors in these professional environments often cover the most ground with almost shockingly minimal and unchanging approaches, where it’s all about volume (or levels of grit) and then musical decision-making, and probably most important, feel. We’re talking about dudes who find a way to sit correctly inside of thousands of hit mixes without doing anything particularly different from one to the next other than finding a way to elevate a given musical context with their contribution.
It’s fun how this digital gear makes skipping around sonic options so convenient, but the only truly groundbreaking thing—the big change—beyond its convenience, reliability, weight and price—is how certain driven tones are now achievable at acceptable, ear-safe dB’s.
A simple board—Fuzz Comp TS Mod Delay—into a simple amp can still do anything anyone’s talking about getting done around here.
The only reason there’s blowback against the limitless sonic landscape of digital is because for a couple decades already, among amateurs and maybe even some pros, it has led to an epidemic of effects overuse and option paralysis that hasn’t made music better. Strats and Tele’s made music better. Deluxes made music better. Bluesbreakers made music better. Etc.
With digital it’s harder to know what’s positive about how it has impacted the evolution of music. I’m sure in the end it is positive, because I’m pro technology, so even automation and the possibilities of AI seem to embody potential and inspiration.
But thus far there’s also a lot to harumph about the impact of digital. And fifteen amps on one track—obviously here only being used by the OP to make a valid point—kind of embodies the (sometimes) pointlessness of the tech.
Howz that for an eminently deletable post!!
You’re Welcome™
Once I did a re-amping test to find “best” tones for a particular melody only to discover how amps with truly different dna sound so similar on record. It was eye-opening. You could literally change amps during the solo without causing sonic red lights. So it’s ultimately more about playing experience—how a particular tone feels for cutting the track or performing.
But while it really doesn’t matter, and if it sounds good there’s nothing wrong with using fifteen amps in a single track, I don’t see the point.
Maybe that’s because so many of my heroes have gotten historically best guitar tones using the volume knob on the guitar, few or zero effects, and a single amp that imparts something special. Yes yes yes of course there are icons who exploited sophisticated boards, but they really do fall into a small minority in my book.
Even in studio scenarios, or cover bands, the busiest purveyors in these professional environments often cover the most ground with almost shockingly minimal and unchanging approaches, where it’s all about volume (or levels of grit) and then musical decision-making, and probably most important, feel. We’re talking about dudes who find a way to sit correctly inside of thousands of hit mixes without doing anything particularly different from one to the next other than finding a way to elevate a given musical context with their contribution.
It’s fun how this digital gear makes skipping around sonic options so convenient, but the only truly groundbreaking thing—the big change—beyond its convenience, reliability, weight and price—is how certain driven tones are now achievable at acceptable, ear-safe dB’s.
A simple board—Fuzz Comp TS Mod Delay—into a simple amp can still do anything anyone’s talking about getting done around here.
The only reason there’s blowback against the limitless sonic landscape of digital is because for a couple decades already, among amateurs and maybe even some pros, it has led to an epidemic of effects overuse and option paralysis that hasn’t made music better. Strats and Tele’s made music better. Deluxes made music better. Bluesbreakers made music better. Etc.
With digital it’s harder to know what’s positive about how it has impacted the evolution of music. I’m sure in the end it is positive, because I’m pro technology, so even automation and the possibilities of AI seem to embody potential and inspiration.
But thus far there’s also a lot to harumph about the impact of digital. And fifteen amps on one track—obviously here only being used by the OP to make a valid point—kind of embodies the (sometimes) pointlessness of the tech.
Howz that for an eminently deletable post!!
You’re Welcome™
metropolis_4
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I think something you can hear in that ugly clip I shared is that if you're thinking you need to use a Marshall for songs that were recorded with a Marshall and a Rectifier for songs that were recorded with a rectifier that's really not necessary. There is so much more overlap than some players realize that it's really not necessary.
But again I think it's then exactly the same as using multiple guitars, or multiple pedals.
If we look at guitars and pedals the same way then technically there's no reason to ever use more than one guitar, or one overdrive pedal.
But how often do we have both a Fulldrive and a Blues Driver because there's that one song where the BD just sounds a little better to us even though we could just use the Fulldrive and nobody would notice.
Or have both a Strat and a Les Paul because there's that one song where I could just play it on my Les Paul, but it just sounds a little better to me on the Strat.
To me it's no different to have both a Deluxe Reverb and an AC15 because there's that one song where I could just use the Deluxe Reverb, but it just sounds a little better to me on an AC15.
creative360
Roadie
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Having witnessed so many legendary performances where those simple and convenient options weren’t available or at least weren’t chosen to be exploited that nonetheless turned out to be tone clinics for the ages still makes me wonder where the actual musical benefit is in having those overlapping or possibly indistinguishable options, beyond that it makes it more fun for the guitarist, which is in itself a completely valid impetus.
Speaking of guitars, I did get to see that Julian Lage trio show last Friday night. Although his signature guitar was on a stand near a Deluxe amp, it seemed a little bit like an ad since he never went near it, opting for a Tele the entire evening.
Favorite moments were usually when bass and drums played at whisper volume and he was cleaner and most favorite of all was when Julian did a jaw-dropping five-minute thing with no accompaniment that was maybe the best evidence I’ve heard distilling the virtuosity and romance of his early years with his more recent angular dissonant muscular approach. Whatever, dude can play!
Regarding tone and “choice”, this bigger venue, not known for jazz, I guess suited this trio’s more rocky loud approach. With no pedals, sometimes with the guitar volume knob but mostly simply with right hand dynamics, Julian went from clean to scream and back again throughout the show.
Whatever, whatever whatever I think everyone should use what he wants and I’m a big fan of everyone making their best music (even if yes Ive owned everything and experimented with sophisticated boards, but ultimately a very long list of my favorite guitarists’ best performances ever mostly involved one guitar, one or two pedals and one amp all at the disposal of a musical badass).
Also, OP keeps putting down his music sample, but whatever, it’s not bad, tones are cool, it’s all good.
Speaking of guitars, I did get to see that Julian Lage trio show last Friday night. Although his signature guitar was on a stand near a Deluxe amp, it seemed a little bit like an ad since he never went near it, opting for a Tele the entire evening.
Favorite moments were usually when bass and drums played at whisper volume and he was cleaner and most favorite of all was when Julian did a jaw-dropping five-minute thing with no accompaniment that was maybe the best evidence I’ve heard distilling the virtuosity and romance of his early years with his more recent angular dissonant muscular approach. Whatever, dude can play!
Regarding tone and “choice”, this bigger venue, not known for jazz, I guess suited this trio’s more rocky loud approach. With no pedals, sometimes with the guitar volume knob but mostly simply with right hand dynamics, Julian went from clean to scream and back again throughout the show.
Whatever, whatever whatever I think everyone should use what he wants and I’m a big fan of everyone making their best music (even if yes Ive owned everything and experimented with sophisticated boards, but ultimately a very long list of my favorite guitarists’ best performances ever mostly involved one guitar, one or two pedals and one amp all at the disposal of a musical badass).
Also, OP keeps putting down his music sample, but whatever, it’s not bad, tones are cool, it’s all good.
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