James Freeman
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Tone Partner Collections
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Tonex News
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Unfortunately, the race to the bottom that happened in the mid-2000's has put music tech companies in a position where in order to maximize revenue streams, they have to pull this kind of crap.
Me?? I'd rather just pay a flat fee and get everything I want, all at once.
MirrorProfiles
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the positive is these should sound a hell of a lot better than the IK captures, which are truly awful (for the tones I like) IMO.
A lot of these guys have plenty of experience making models and profiling things.
Whether or not we’ll get good information on what loads they used, what input level to use, and lots of direct captures is another matter
Anyway, it bolsters the product. Making quality captures takes time and effort so I wouldn’t expect these to be free forever
A lot of these guys have plenty of experience making models and profiling things.
Whether or not we’ll get good information on what loads they used, what input level to use, and lots of direct captures is another matter
Anyway, it bolsters the product. Making quality captures takes time and effort so I wouldn’t expect these to be free forever
James Freeman
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laxu
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The pricing seems to be all over the place, from 12-40 euros. Sometimes it's because there's a lot of captures, sometimes there's no real rhyme or reason to the pricing. While people might assume they are done with the highest quality capture, there's no way to verify that for example.
While IK has beat NDSP to having a proper marketplace, the info is again completely buried where you rely a lot on e.g a list of capture names + audio demo or alternatively have to dig through each capture to find what's going on. Most of the time you rely on a 1 paragraph text to understand the differences between packs from any vendor.
Clicking on those packs in the Collections list is not great. There's no indication on what is a link and just by clicking on the vendor name vs the pack takes you to different places. A "read more" button would be far more intuitive way to reach the pack details.
Vendor descriptions also vary but are generally pretty sparse and don't seem to allow for any good formatting in the descriptions either. I think adding more detail would be a very simple way to make people more interested in picking your pack over others.
While people with disabilities are unlikely to make much of IK's userbase, not having any working keyboard navigation is pretty weak. The damn thing will even reload just pressing Tab enough times. Even just basics like highlighting what you can interact with is missing even when using a mouse. Hover animations and styles etc exists for purposes like these and take next to no effort to implement.
I swear, there's nobody actually testing user experience at IK...
While IK has beat NDSP to having a proper marketplace, the info is again completely buried where you rely a lot on e.g a list of capture names + audio demo or alternatively have to dig through each capture to find what's going on. Most of the time you rely on a 1 paragraph text to understand the differences between packs from any vendor.
Clicking on those packs in the Collections list is not great. There's no indication on what is a link and just by clicking on the vendor name vs the pack takes you to different places. A "read more" button would be far more intuitive way to reach the pack details.
Vendor descriptions also vary but are generally pretty sparse and don't seem to allow for any good formatting in the descriptions either. I think adding more detail would be a very simple way to make people more interested in picking your pack over others.
While people with disabilities are unlikely to make much of IK's userbase, not having any working keyboard navigation is pretty weak. The damn thing will even reload just pressing Tab enough times. Even just basics like highlighting what you can interact with is missing even when using a mouse. Hover animations and styles etc exists for purposes like these and take next to no effort to implement.
I swear, there's nobody actually testing user experience at IK...
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MirrorProfiles
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Totally agree here - I'm not sure I agree that this competes with anything Neural DSP are really trying to do because I think the experience is fundamentally opposed to how NDSP present their products. The tone capturing is a feature on one of their products, but it doesn't utilise the technology that sets them apart and I see if more of something thats tacked on that a defining feature. I think, as far as plugins go, NDSP would rather keep selling things as they are than having an untamed user ecosystem like this. I don't think NDSP will be releasing a product where the user is sat randomly scrolling through lists.
If its a case of spending £30 per pack on some SLO100 ToneX models, or £60 on an officially licenced plugin with all the full controls, UI, consistent gain staging, proper loads used etc, its quite a tough sell (to me). As far as I can tell, there is no way to search through the vendors, you have to scroll through and hunt down the ones you (might) want. There is also precisely zero information about input levels or the loads used, and I am flatly not buying anything that doesn't clearly state how to get the tone as intended. There are enough other plugins that can offer you accurate tone without the drawbacks of having to guess how its supposed to sound.
I had one crash (I got stuck on white noise blasts), and ToneNet seems to be understandably struggling at the moment.
So far, classic IK. Extra waffle and bloat added to the software in the name of chasing a bit more money, user experience is more confused and sluggish as a result, more bugs, more lags, less fixes.
I like a lot of IK products but I'm so wary of giving them any more money until they fix their existing products.
laxu
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I do think this is actually good for Tonex users as having basically what Kemper offers where you start to have "known good" vendors and packs to recommend, that you can buy from one place. Makes it easier for new users to pick up the Tonex pedal and find something truly great sounding for a bit of extra money.
I don't think they are trying to compete with other plugins here, but instead the Quad Cortex or Kemper's capture stuff. On the QC NeuralDSP has their QC app that puts captures etc in one place, but there is no marketplace or good tools for vendors to share their content with users who have bought a pack of captures through their website for example.
It's always frustrating to see anything related to Tonex because there's a lot of potential for being a great product in there. It offers a lot of value for the money and if it worked really well, it would be a nobrainer to recommend to someone looking for an amp/cab sim.
But IK desperately needs to hire someone who understands UI/UX design. To me they are doing things the "how it was easiest to program" or "how it was easiest to fit into the existing stuff" way instead of considering "how do we make this as easy to understand and use for our users." At least get their designers and developers to read through some best practices articles online!
MirrorProfiles
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Totally agree with all this again.
Considering the bloat on ToneX software already, it really feels like a lot of these additions weren't fully planned for and its already becoming more sluggish and overwhelming to look at. I think this kind of unified marketplace should have been in ToneX since day one, and just with a neater and more concise UI. Because they're botching as they go its just a jumbled up confusing experience to use.
I think we're essentially approaching a kind of "amp modelling singularity" where soon we'll have both pretty indistinguishably accurate algorthmic and captured models. Assuming it sounds 1:1 with the real deal, then the importance of the user experience grows massively. How quickly can the user get the sounds they want? I think thats where Neural's plugins really lead the way - if you want to sound like Petrucci/Plini/Henson/Morello you basically open the app and its done. If you want a Soldano, one click - there it is. They obviously have the ability to go much deeper if you want, but I think a huge part of their success has been that users immediately get what they ordered (LOL at quad cortex being so different here). Its absolutely possibly to get those tones in other devices, but it requires more work from the user. There's more scope to lose focus, or make a mistake.
I think profiling/modelling is absolutely the fastest way to replicate your own amp's tone digitally. It works amazing for getting something that sounds basically identical. I dont think it really offers as much in the way of creating sounds and dialling things in for yourself. You're basically looking at an Excel spreadsheet and trying to hunt down what you need - its not really an intuitive and fulfilling process for a musician or audio engineer.
It has its place for sure, but I think its biggest strength is being able to catalog your own gear.
MirrorProfiles
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@laxu speaks far too much truth and common sense, it would fall on deaf ears at a lot of companies who are happier at keeping their heads in the sand and prefer telling customers what they want rather than listening.
laxu
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Absolutely.
Current modelers require a lot of gear knowhow - like understanding the difference between different Marshalls or Fenders to pick something resembling what they heard on their favorite record. Captures with audio clips can be actually an easier way to approach this if you know little about amps, just listen until you find "I like this" options.
NeuralDSP does a great job with their plugins where on any of them it's easy to find a few presets that are 95% what you'd like and can then be tweaked to be just right.
I've tried replicating a preset I liked from the SLO plugin but using Line6 Helix Native and ML Sound Lab MIKKO. I could get there after a good amount of back and forth, so there's definitely work involved and the NeuralDSP plugin itself doesn't sound better than the others. It's just that their factory/artist presets work better. I have no idea how they manage to do it when often Line6, Fractal etc don't manage to have factory presets that seem to work great for many users straight out of the box with little to no adjustments.
I think all modelers are actually pretty bad at data management today, whether it's arranging your presets, captures, or IRs. Most of them don't even offer basic tools for trying to find, filter, sort and group stuff. Compare this to say searching on eCommerce sites where it can often match things for you based on a variety of criteria even with vague keywords. This is an area where I can see AI stuff becoming a good solution in future products, just finding stuff when users are bad at explaining what they want. Of course, running that sort of thing within the limits of a hardware unit is challenging so it might be something much more stripped down or something limited to the computer editor. But even low cost and effort tools like better search/filter/sort/grouping would go a long way.
Totally agree again. When I had the QC, it was easy to capture my amps and get something that sounded and felt very close to that amp through the same output system. Even if charts and graphs say that Tonex or NAM is more accurate, Kemper and QC still get close enough that it's not going to make a big difference. The capture process being fast and relatively easy to do matters a lot more. It's not like the Tonex is bad in this regard either and probably as fast if you don't use the most advanced capture option.
James Freeman
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One of the most articulate and sharpest gear forumers I know.
laxu
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I'm already a consultant working on web services for a living, but definitely not a salesman so I work for a consulting company instead. I've thought about becoming my own boss a few times, but the idea of finding clients even in my current field does sound daunting and a lot of work in itself. So I'm fine with trading higher pay for better job security and focusing on the things I'm good at and have someone else do the sales part.
Good to know venturing into music gear might be something to do if I get tired of this or AI does somehow end up taking my job!
BenIfin
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madmarcus1960
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This is what came up on the IKM Product MGR
BenIfin
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New bells and whistles aside ... I love how Tonex sounds and feels ..... but .... still as of the newly released today 1.20 update:-
1 => cant live or otherwise edit a Capture in Librarian Mode
2 => no Hi/Lo Cuts for the Cab / IR Block
3 => approx: 45 seconds from double-clicking the Standalone App to loading the Librarian with only 12 Presets and every other slot empty
How 1 and 2 weren't there from Day 1 ... and incredulously still not there ... is just very 1995 software-like. 3 is presumably just really bad software / communication between the software and the hardware ..... its massive p.i.t.a
Ben
1 => cant live or otherwise edit a Capture in Librarian Mode
2 => no Hi/Lo Cuts for the Cab / IR Block
3 => approx: 45 seconds from double-clicking the Standalone App to loading the Librarian with only 12 Presets and every other slot empty
How 1 and 2 weren't there from Day 1 ... and incredulously still not there ... is just very 1995 software-like. 3 is presumably just really bad software / communication between the software and the hardware ..... its massive p.i.t.a
Ben
madmarcus1960
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Want more than 50 user IRs
Enchilada Jones
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#1 should have resulted in a meeting of a Dept head and HR and lead with the question ‘can I fire them for half assed performance?’
norminal
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Do you still have to import impulse responses one at a time?
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