Those Seymour Duncan Powerstage amps are utter tripe

[Boudoir Guitar]

My chord can beat up your chord!

 

[OrganicZed]

On wattage for use with modelers:

60 watts of good, heavy class A/B power is not enough to get as loud as I sometimes like to play in my 12'x12'x8' jam room without noticeably distorting, even playing tweed amps where a big open G power chord from a tele bridge pick up is about as demanding as things get

What is the impedance rating of your cabinet? With solid state amplifiers the impedance changes the output power by quite a bit.

I run a stereo setup with 2 4x12 cabs and 375W per channel @16 Ohms class AB. That gets the job done.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

What is the impedance rating of your cabinet? With solid state amplifiers the impedance changes the output power by quite a bit.

I run a stereo setup with 2 4x12 cabs and 375W per channel @16 Ohms class AB. That gets the job done.

It's an 8ohm cab. The amp was rated 120 watts at 4 ohms.

 

[deathbyguitar]

Okay so concerning the earlier idea I had for a YouTube video on Class D "FRFR" vs a real amp, here's a preliminary plan.

Video shows punk band practices in an outdoor storage unit. One guitarist, one bassist and a drummer. They switch and back between real amps (Boosted Dual Rec Multi Watt and some old Peavey 15inch combo) and different combos of "FRFR" speakers (1 Yamaha DHR12M each, then two DHR12Ms each stacked on their sides) with an Axe-FX and a Tech 21 Bass Driver pedal. FRFRs would most likely have some high/low pass filters applied and some harsh frequencies reduced a bit.

The point of the video would be two-fold:
1. Do a review of the DHR12M for guitar-centric uses
2. Do a side-by-side comparison for those of you that mutter "amp in the room" in your sleep


Does this seem like a solid plan? Anything I'm forgetting? Might also compare my DHR12's since those are other speakers that people tend to mention in "FRFR" land. I know some people will say this is a futile exercise but I'm gonna do it anyway.


Also I'm just realizing that this has nothing to do with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage but considering it's focusing on Class D stuff, maybe this is relevant to the conversation?

 

[Orvillain]

Okay so concerning the earlier idea I had for a YouTube video on Class D "FRFR" vs a real amp, here's a preliminary plan.

Video shows punk band practices in an outdoor storage unit. One guitarist, one bassist and a drummer. They switch and back between real amps (Boosted Dual Rec Multi Watt and some old Peavey 15inch combo) and different combos of "FRFR" speakers (1 Yamaha DHR12M each, then two DHR12Ms each stacked on their sides) with an Axe-FX and a Tech 21 Bass Driver pedal. FRFRs would most likely have some high/low pass filters applied and some harsh frequencies reduced a bit.

The point of the video would be two-fold:
1. Do a review of the DHR12M for guitar-centric uses
2. Do a side-by-side comparison for those of you that mutter "amp in the room" in your sleep


Does this seem like a solid plan? Anything I'm forgetting? Might also compare my DHR12's since those are other speakers that people tend to mention in "FRFR" land. I know some people will say this is a futile exercise but I'm gonna do it anyway.


Also I'm just realizing that this has nothing to do with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage but considering it's focusing on Class D stuff, maybe this is relevant to the conversation?

I'd be interested to see this. High-gain Tool-esque palm mutes must feature though.

 

[SKU]

Okay so concerning the earlier idea I had for a YouTube video on Class D "FRFR" vs a real amp, here's a preliminary plan.

Video shows punk band practices in an outdoor storage unit. One guitarist, one bassist and a drummer. They switch and back between real amps (Boosted Dual Rec Multi Watt and some old Peavey 15inch combo) and different combos of "FRFR" speakers (1 Yamaha DHR12M each, then two DHR12Ms each stacked on their sides) with an Axe-FX and a Tech 21 Bass Driver pedal. FRFRs would most likely have some high/low pass filters applied and some harsh frequencies reduced a bit.

The point of the video would be two-fold:
1. Do a review of the DHR12M for guitar-centric uses
2. Do a side-by-side comparison for those of you that mutter "amp in the room" in your sleep


Does this seem like a solid plan? Anything I'm forgetting? Might also compare my DHR12's since those are other speakers that people tend to mention in "FRFR" land. I know some people will say this is a futile exercise but I'm gonna do it anyway.


Also I'm just realizing that this has nothing to do with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage but considering it's focusing on Class D stuff, maybe this is relevant to the conversation?

What would be the purpose of this video? I understand it's a "vs" video but versus in what way? What are we looking for?

 

[Orvillain]

What would be the purpose of this video? I understand it's a "vs" video but versus in what way? What are we looking for?

Well allegedly a measurement microphone in your "head" position near a cab is enough to capture the amp in the room sound, so.....

 

[deathbyguitar]

I'd be interested to see this. High-gain Tool-esque palm mutes must feature though.

You bet your ass there will be.

 

[SKU]

Well allegedly a measurement microphone in your "head" position near a cab is enough to capture the amp in the room sound, so.....

Ahh ... I see. This is getting interested. So you're saying that @deathbyguitar is in possession of a particular set of very rare ... magical I might say ... impulse responses that allegedly have been lost.

 

[deathbyguitar]

What would be the purpose of this video? I understand it's a "vs" video but versus in what way? What are we looking for?

Well I'm probably overthinking it (my specialty) but I figured it could a good example of "FRFR" in a heavy band context instead of the usual videos where blues lawyers are shooting out powered speakers in their basement side by side, not particularly loud.

 

[yeky83]

It isn't about pushing a full 100W.

In the post I quoted it is.

I hear what you're saying, and on paper I agree. But I swear down these prepackaged class D amps are doing something to the low-end in order to obtain their power-rating. Filtering all of it out so that it doesn't reach clipping point as soon, something like that.

I'm not an electronics engineer, but even with clean headroom what I hear from these amps is they remove a ton of low frequency content that just sounds great on guitar, particularly for high gain.

Dunno about the specific class D amp you were using, but they likely don't remove low freq above audible range. They just have a high damping factor compared to tube amps, so it's not boosting the heck out of lows like tube amps would. ImPeDaNcE InTeRaCtIoNs.

I own a Seymour Duncan PS700 and it doesn't seem to reproduce the low frequencies of a guitar signal as well as my other amps (Fryette PS-2, QSC RMX and PLX solid state amplifiers). I did a direct A/B comparison of the RMX 2450 and the PS700. Even at moderate volume (100 dB) the difference was there. I know I wasn't pushing either amplifier anywhere near the limit of their output capabilities. I don't know if the difference is specifically due to the differences in wattage or the amplifier output stage designs, but it was audible nonetheless.

You're not doing an A/B comparison here. You're acoustically corner loading one side of the cab more than the other, so it's going to sound like there's more bass on one side than the other. Also, you can't compare the PS-2 to the other SS amplifiers for the reason stated above. There may also be additional factors at play, who knows.

 

[JasonE]

I have a couple of modelers and I like them. However, for me, tubes always win in a live band situation.

 

[yeky83]

Okay so concerning the earlier idea I had for a YouTube video on Class D "FRFR" vs a real amp, here's a preliminary plan.

Video shows punk band practices in an outdoor storage unit. One guitarist, one bassist and a drummer. They switch and back between real amps (Boosted Dual Rec Multi Watt and some old Peavey 15inch combo) and different combos of "FRFR" speakers (1 Yamaha DHR12M each, then two DHR12Ms each stacked on their sides) with an Axe-FX and a Tech 21 Bass Driver pedal. FRFRs would most likely have some high/low pass filters applied and some harsh frequencies reduced a bit.

The point of the video would be two-fold:
1. Do a review of the DHR12M for guitar-centric uses
2. Do a side-by-side comparison for those of you that mutter "amp in the room" in your sleep


Does this seem like a solid plan? Anything I'm forgetting? Might also compare my DHR12's since those are other speakers that people tend to mention in "FRFR" land. I know some people will say this is a futile exercise but I'm gonna do it anyway.


Also I'm just realizing that this has nothing to do with the Seymour Duncan Powerstage but considering it's focusing on Class D stuff, maybe this is relevant to the conversation?

There's a bunch of conflating of topics... Class D, tube, "FRFR", cab, amp, modeler... sounds like a confusing video. I'd do just a straight forward review of the DHR12M, but whatever.

Try the comparison with the Line 6 Stage Source set to Electric Guitar Speaker Mode, it'll fare well against a guitar cab.

Well allegedly a measurement microphone in your "head" position near a cab is enough to capture the amp in the room sound, so.....

That's not it...

 

[OrganicZed]

In the post I quoted it is.

Dunno about the specific class D amp you were using, but they likely don't remove low freq above audible range. They just have a high damping factor compared to tube amps, so it's not boosting the heck out of lows like tube amps would. ImPeDaNcE InTeRaCtIoNs.

You're not doing an A/B comparison here. You're acoustically corner loading one side of the cab more than the other, so it's going to sound like there's more bass on one side than the other. Also, you can't compare the PS-2 to the other SS amplifiers for the reason stated above. There may also be additional factors at play, who knows.

Ah, that's a fair point I hadn't previously considered here. One side of the cab is closer to the corner of the room, so that might account for the difference.

 

[SKU]

Let's not forget that the issue is not necessarily with how an amp sounds but rather how it feels. So it's not always just the materialistic aspect of these things i.e. let's record how it sounds and you tell me if you like it or well the audience is very happy with my tone.

 

[yeky83]

Let's not forget that the issue is not necessarily with how an amp sounds but rather how it feels. So it's not always just the materialistic aspect of these things

This is truly

 

[SKU]

This is truly

It's only if you are a materialist ... in the philosophical sense.

 

[yeky83]

It's only if you are a materialist ... in the philosophical sense.

I mean, it's pretty damn materialistic to get the feelz from a certain amp cus it says a certain brand and is of certain class you like, even though there is nothing materialistically different coming out of that amp.

 

[Orvillain]

I mean, it's pretty damn materialistic to get the feelz from a certain amp cus it says a certain brand and is of certain class you like, even though there is nothing materialistically different coming out of that amp.

Even though the whole thread is predicated on empirical observation?

OKAY THEN CHET.

 

[SKU]

I mean, it's pretty damn materialistic to get the feelz from a certain amp cus it says a certain brand and is of certain class you like, even though there is nothing materialistically different coming out of that amp.

That's not what materialism is ... it's about ignoring the object between the guitar and the amp and replacing it ( the perceiver ) with a set of limited mathematical measurements.