This might be the end of digital for me

[mikah912]

For me there's no "vs" in this at all. It's about knowing what you do and gathering information before you do so.

Right? You can have a personal preference for a platform without asserting that it's the best solution for everyone in every single use case.

 

[Rock Chalk]

Logic comes with a lot of stuff while Reaper's plugins and whatnot are fairly rudimentary.

Yet so many people are able to do amazing things with it.....it might be because it just works.....no fluff.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Right? You can have a personal preference for a platform without asserting that it's the best solution for everyone in every single use case.

 

[Sascha Franck]

None of these ultra big companies are saints... very far from it. It's unfortunate but the world is run by it whether we realize it or not.

I am perfectly aware of all that (fwiw, I've been much more into political activity some years back...). Which is exactly why as many people as possible need to speak up. And before you can do so with authority, you need to gather proper information.

See, I'm using Apple computers exclusively since 2007 by now. And I do exactly know why I'm using them, I also know that most likely I will continue doing so for the rest of my life.
I also recommend Apple computers to some people (in this very case that was the reason to start the thread, I actually wouldn't), and again there's good reasons (these days especially in case you want a high performance laptop).
But all that doesn't make me unsee the gazillions of things that simply aren't right in Apple land by any means of, hm, shall we say "decency".
I've also got nothing against them charging some extra money for whatever it might be. Their R&D, their design, their (basically excellent) OS, their software, etc.
But charging people €690 for a 2TB SSD of slightly better than average specs, roughly 4 times the price the same SSD would cost on the consumer (!) market - well, that's just plain greed. They don't do any extra work for this, not even one second (it's not as if they would rip the old SSD out for that upgrade), all they're doing is grabbing another box from the shelve. A new dimension of greed.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Right? You can have a personal preference for a platform without asserting that it's the best solution for everyone in every single use case.

Precisely. And in case people were reading my first post on the subject, it should be pretty obvious that I'm absolutely aware of both the pros and cons of Apple computers.

 

[Gearzilla]

I am perfectly aware of all that (fwiw, I've been much more into political activity some years back...). Which is exactly why as many people as possible need to speak up. And before you can do so with authority, you need to gather proper information.

See, I'm using Apple computers exclusively since 2007 by now. And I do exactly know why I'm using them, I also know that most likely I will continue doing so for the rest of my life.
I also recommend Apple computers to some people (in this very case that was the reason to start the thread, I actually wouldn't), and again there's good reasons (these days especially in case you want a high performance laptop).
But all that doesn't make me unsee the gazillions of things that simply aren't right in Apple land by any means of, hm, shall we say "decency".
I've also got nothing against them charging some extra money for whatever it might be. Their R&D, their design, their (basically excellent) OS, their software, etc.
But charging people €690 for a 2TB SSD of slightly better than average specs, roughly 4 times the price the same SSD would cost on the consumer (!) market - well, that's just plain greed. They don't do any extra work for this, not even one second (it's not as if they would rip the old SSD out for that upgrade), all they're doing is grabbing another box from the shelve. A new dimension of greed.

No one’s being forced to purchase Apple products.

Given their degree of success their formula seems to be working fine.

 

[laxu]

No one’s being forced to purchase Apple products.

Given their degree of success their formula seems to be working fine.

You can like a product and still consider it to be bad value for money. To use a guitar example, you can love say a Fender Custom Shop Strat, but still consider it to be a bad value for money when objectively as an instrument a production line Fender Strat is more than good enough.

Apple knows fully well they are selling a pretty shitty base spec. It's all a scheme to upsell you on expensive upgrades, or pick a more expensive base model from another line. Hell, the only reason I have a M2 Max instead of M2 Pro is because I need the full external display capabilities only offered by M2 Max, considering I use dual 4K 144 Hz displays.

With the M3 release, interviewers were asking Apple why the new Macs still have the same 8 GB RAM base spec and Apple reps tried to say "our RAM is more capable and is like 16 GB", which was then quickly proven blatantly false by 3rd party tests showing the computers struggle when that RAM gets filled. Even though Apple's unified RAM is very fast, it can't turn into more of it. It is also shared between CPU and GPU, so in reality they have even less RAM than it looks on paper, compared to PCs with dedicated CPU RAM and GPU VRAM.

The more people, reviews etc say that they are selling a poor value for money, the less viable it becomes for Apple to keep offering it. We eventually got less shitty storage space and RAM for iPhones and iPads, and hopefully that will be the case for Macs too.

 

[Gearzilla]

You can like a product and still consider it to be bad value for money.

Personally I would say it’s unwise for someone to purchase things they themselves consider to be a bad value.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I am perfectly aware of all that (fwiw, I've been much more into political activity some years back...). Which is exactly why as many people as possible need to speak up. And before you can do so with authority, you need to gather proper information.

See, I'm using Apple computers exclusively since 2007 by now. And I do exactly know why I'm using them, I also know that most likely I will continue doing so for the rest of my life.
I also recommend Apple computers to some people (in this very case that was the reason to start the thread, I actually wouldn't), and again there's good reasons (these days especially in case you want a high performance laptop).
But all that doesn't make me unsee the gazillions of things that simply aren't right in Apple land by any means of, hm, shall we say "decency".
I've also got nothing against them charging some extra money for whatever it might be. Their R&D, their design, their (basically excellent) OS, their software, etc.
But charging people €690 for a 2TB SSD of slightly better than average specs, roughly 4 times the price the same SSD would cost on the consumer (!) market - well, that's just plain greed. They don't do any extra work for this, not even one second (it's not as if they would rip the old SSD out for that upgrade), all they're doing is grabbing another box from the shelve. A new dimension of greed.

I agree about the SSD thing, so I would normally upgrade them myself as needed. But newer laptops you can't do that.

 

[laxu]

Personally I would say it’s unwise for someone to purchase things they themselves consider to be a bad value.

Sometimes you bite the bullet because it's still the best option out of various bad ones.

 

[fretworn]

What’s it like to never be satisfied?

 

[Sascha Franck]

What’s it like to never be satisfied?

It's called being curious.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But newer laptops you can't do that.

Well, there's still plenty of Windows laptops allowing you to swap RAM and SSD. Sometimes even 2 SSDs.

 

[Gearzilla]

Sometimes you bite the bullet because it's still the best option out of various bad ones.

So it’s actually the best perceived value in your use case then, isn’t it?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Personally I would say it’s unwise for someone to purchase things they themselves consider to be a bad value.

Captain Obvious, no?
Thing is, I can still criticize companies even if I buy and use their products. In fact, I can even do that better than someone not using their products, because I've got some first hand experience.

 

[Sascha Franck]

No. Actually I think that’s pretty ignorant.

No, it's not. It's a list of things that were successful. Which was your only justification for Apple.

 

[paisleywookiee]

For me, it hasn't been so rosy.

A 2006 or so Macbook non-Pro had so bad viewing angles on the display I had to return it. Its colors would shift just by moving a bit in a chair.
A 2013 Macbook Pro was great, loved it.
A 2016 Macbook Pro had one of the worst keyboards I've ever used. Many of my coworkers broke these.
A 2019 MBP became noisy doing nothing except connecting a 4K display to it and it would also regularly get bogged down when doing anything more demanding. And this was a computer with 64 GB of RAM, it would just seem to throttle the CPU and GPU.
My M2 Max Macbook Pro is mostly great but still does a bit weird stuff with external displays, like HDR not working at particular scaling levels and the display connected to the HDMI port starting and turning off randomly when the computer should be asleep, while an identical display connected via USB-C to Displayport doesn't do this.

For me, it's been amazing (at least until I started my current job, which only has a few Macs). Supporting over 200 users, issues with end users went down. No malware, no reliability issues, surprisingly durable (an engineer smacked his MBP against a boiler in a power plant, and while it dented, it still worked like a champ), and people generally loved using them.

Personally, I've now had seven Macs over the years in my family, and none have had a single issue. My son even got OpenCore running on a 2012, and is now using that with MacOS 13. The Mini M1 is crazy fast, and Logic is perfect in terms of stability, latency, and ease of use.

No OS is perfect, and Windows isn't the shit-show it used to be. But there are certain factors that keep me from dipping my toes back into Windows completely. I do keep the EliteBook around for that, but eh.

I do the whole "Windows sucks, Mac elitist" bullshit, but really it's tongue in cheek, because A. Apple isn't perfect, and B. I actually don't give a fuck what anyone uses, so long as I can still use Macs.

 

[fretworn]

No, it's not. It's a list of things that were successful. Which was your only justification for Apple.

See… This is where you and the rest of the western world take a different path and depart you.

We clearly have vastly different definitions for “success”.

I can re-post what you deleted …

 

[Sascha Franck]

I can re-post what you deleted …

I didn't delete anything. Must've been a mod.

 

[paisleywookiee]

See… This is where you and the rest of the western world take a different path and depart you.

We clearly have vastly different definitions for “success”.

I can re-post what you deleted …

Clearly I'm missing the good stuff!