The Gear Forum designs a next-gen digital modeler!

[Foxmeister]

No. It's all in the context. You disagreed on something you don't know much about or aren't interested in. And then you came up with some "but modelers can do this and thst". Talk about gaslighting, hm?

Bye!

Congratulations on being the first person in my ignore list.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Congratulations on being the first person in my ignore list.

Oh, so you were just beating me by seconds.
Truly acquired TGP style.

 

[Orvillain]

I went back through the last few pages. Struggling to see the 40 year old thing even be defined to be honest. So to make a claim that modellers can't do it, without defining it... I mean, I'm happy if someone points out the thing you're all arguing about... but I'm not seeing it.

I see this post:

Talking about sort of mimicking the analog world: Given that pretty much every guitarist on earth has gotten their mouths watering when seeing all those elaborated Bradshaw, Cornish and whatever rigs, isn't it quite astonishing that to this day there's NOT ONE modeler allowing you to recreate any such a setup? I mean, in some aspects, they're not even remotely getting into the ballpark. Why is that?

This doesn't really mean anything. What aspects of Bob Bradshaw or Pete Cornish rigs are you even talking about Sascha?

 

[Orvillain]

Oh and regarding Bob Bradshaw and Pete Cornish, so far as I know, neither of them are particularly experienced musicians or touring artists. They're engineers first and foremost. So do I think someone absolutely needs to have live playing experience in order to be able to problem solve for the live performing musician? No I do not.

 

[signalpath]

Truly acquired TGP style

En route to invoking Godwin’s Law.

 

[the-trooper]

I went back through the last few pages. Struggling to see the 40 year old thing even be defined to be honest. So to make a claim that modellers can't do it, without defining it... I mean, I'm happy if someone points out the thing you're all arguing about... but I'm not seeing it.

This:

Example: You have a modulation loop with a Moebius inside and select some presets straight on the unit. The unit itself however will only become audible on patch 09 of your controller (because that's where the loop is active). Very simple, very straightforward, completely impossible on any modeler (without using external hardware of course)

But again, not being able to do this one obscure thing while doing a 100 other things better, I'd hardly call that "modelers can't even remotely do what rigs could 40 years ago".

 

[Orvillain]

Oh I see.

Can't the Helix do that if you put the unit in spillover mode (sacrifice a DSP chip) and have a looper in the block, or does the looper clear it's buffer on preset change??

Assuming by 'modulation loop' Sascha means a looper.

 

[the-trooper]

Oh I see.

Can't the Helix do that if you put the unit in spillover mode (sacrifice a DSP chip) and have a looper in the block, or does the looper clear it's buffer on preset change??

Assuming by 'modulation loop' Sascha means a looper.

No idea honestly, turned on the looper on Helix maybe twice.

 

[laxu]

I feel like this would be worth starting its own thread. E.g "Bradshaw/Cornish type rigs in a modeler" or something.

 

[Orvillain]

"Bradshaw/Cornish type rigs in a modeler"

Well that's the thing. Their rigs ARE primarily just switching and cabling. They aren't DSP guys and they aren't multi-FX designers. What they do is take all of your components and slap it together for you with high quality buffers, cables, and bypass loopers, then they wrap it all up with a bow and put their name on it. Not to disrespect them, what they do is great. But that is what it is.

Which is why I was confused.

 

[signalpath]

I feel like this would be worth starting its own thread. E.g "Bradshaw/Cornish type rigs in a modeler" or something.

Good idea. And it would most likely only have one post.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But again, not being able to do this one obscure thing

This isn't obscure at all. Gazillions of players using loop switchers are doing it every day.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Assuming by 'modulation loop' Sascha means a looper

No, just a loop with any kind of device in it, modulation just being an example.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I feel like this would be worth starting its own thread. E.g "Bradshaw/Cornish type rigs in a modeler" or something.

Yeah, might be a good idea.

 

[DrewJD82]

I haven’t even smoked any weed yet and I have no clue wtf you guys are arguing about.

Well that's the thing. Their rigs ARE primarily just switching and cabling. They aren't DSP guys and they aren't multi-FX designers. What they do is take all of your components and slap it together for you with high quality buffers, cables, and bypass loopers, then they wrap it all up with a bow and put their name on it. Not to disrespect them, what they do is great. But that is what it is.

Which is why I was confused.

Indeed.

So, in your book it's a good thing that modern modelers can't even remotely do what rigs could 40 years ago?

Hyperbole much? Damn, I need your dealer’s number.

No, by means of handling, they don't even get close.
Just one example (and I'm doing it just like that with my loopswitcher based setup): I can preselect what's happening withing one loop (in various ways even) and that loop will then only exist as an "on/off entity" within the rest of the patch organisation. Example: You have a modulation loop with a Moebius inside and select some presets straight on the unit. The unit itself however will only become audible on patch 09 of your controller (because that's where the loop is active). Very simple, very straightforward, completely impossible on any modeler (without using external hardware of course).

That’s because programming everything in ahead of time negates the need for it. If you wanted the option to improvise different effects in a live setting you’d just have to make a preset that has everything you’d ever want to use and if you wanted to switch between different versions of the same effect, there’s options for that too. There’s so much programmability in a Fractal unit you can pull this off easily enough with Scenes, Control Switches and Scene Ignore, you just need to have everything loaded in and programmed ahead of time, the same way someone needs to build and program a Bradshaw/Cornish rig.

And since modern modelers (from companies who actually pay attention to their customers) add features upon request, if no one requests it, it’s because they don’t need it. If you go look at *every* modeler forum feature request, you won’t find the feature you’re asking about anywhere. The closest that got was Channels/Scene Ignore with Fractal.

The idea of “modern modelers can’t even remotely do what rigs 40 years ago” did is laughable.


Let’s get two birds stoned at once; there’s a rig that’s both Bradshaw AND Cornish-built. Know what it can’t do? Use anything else other than what’s already there and programmed into it. Want to add another pedal in there? Have fun ripping the wiring apart and re-labeling everything. $20,000 rig and what you see is what you get. Programming changes among multiple rack units, lining up all the MIDI channels/CC’s/PC’s to make one simple change when a modeler can do the same thing in about 5 seconds of mouse clicks while having the option of swapping any device out of the preset with anything available within the modeler. Hell, there’s not even a tap tempo on that $20,000 rig!

Want to swap out the mono tape delay for a stereo ping pong? That’s one button click on a modeler and literal hours of wiring and programming to do that within a Bradshaw/Cornish rig unless they built it anticipating you might want to do that someday. If not, too f*ckin’ bad, it’s already built and wired up.

And *any* kind of improvising with switching with a Bradshaw/Cornish rig has to be thought out ahead of time to allow for it, the same way one would with a modeler. You can’t just have Bob wire up a huge rig then mid set think “Oh, I’m going to do something entirely different now, let me just do that on the fly without programming it into the system”, no different than one would have to think out what they want to improvise with a modeler before they actually do it.

This is easily the dumbest argument I’ve seen on this forum yet and what’s crazier about it is that I don’t think you‘ve even taken the time to understand the features of the modelers you’re griping about to understand what IS available on them negates the need for what you’re asking for. Just on my FM9 with limited programming, I can access Presets/Scenes/Effects, I can turn any effect on and off within the scenes or switch scenes to utilize a different Channel of the effects block, swapping out the effects type and it’s literally seconds of clicking with a mouse to program it.

 

[GTR37]

Well that's the thing. Their rigs ARE primarily just switching and cabling. They aren't DSP guys and they aren't multi-FX designers. What they do is take all of your components and slap it together for you with high quality buffers, cables, and bypass loopers, then they wrap it all up with a bow and put their name on it. Not to disrespect them, what they do is great. But that is what it is.

Which is why I was confused.

No, just a loop with any kind of device in it, modulation just being an example.

Again have you tried the AXE FX 3
They have tons of ways to do what your asking even Helix you can add
An FX loop with external pedals
Axe fx has FX loops send and return you can put anywhere

They have scene ignore , I personally don’t use this stuff but I bet some of their experts could tell you how to do what you want
Just go and read the manuals if you haven’t,blocks guide they are very detailed .

 

[Sascha Franck]

Still at the gig, so typing on the phone.
Anyhow, here's something I'm doing o n *each and every* gig. This is just an excerpt, things get multiplied once more devices are involved.

Patch 1: Dry overdriven sound.
Patch 2: Same overdriven sound with the Stomp working as a delay/verb unit activated.

I'm typically using 4 different delays/verbs. 3 are pretty constantly the same, I may modify the 4th whenever I feel like or need to.
I preselect these so I don't need any extra main patches or scenes or whatever.

To get the same sounds from the Helix, I'd need 5 snapshots already. Alternatively, I'd put the FX on a switchable parallel path. In that case, I'd need 3-4 switches to switch the FX blocks on that path.

So, that's 5 switches gone already. Now imagine I wanted to do similar things with more FX involved. You'd quickly reach an amount of 30-40 switches.

Alternatively, I may use multiple patches with those FX variations preprogrammed (quite absurd in case there's some FX I only use super rarely, but hey...).
This however would require global blocks as a prerequisite - as I always want to have global access to my "amp channel" settings. So that'd automatically rule out all modelers but the Axe FX and the GT-1000. And it'd still be "vastly" less flexible than what I described above.

To get you some numbers: my rather mediocre pedalboard has 2 main amp channels. Then there's boosted versions of each. Then there's delay versions of each. And then there's modulated versions of each (again around 4).
And then there's the drive loop with 5 drives in it.

Just combining all drive settings (5) with all possible spatial settings (5, off plus 4 x on) and all modulations (5, off plus 4 x on) results in 5x5x5 possible sound variations. That's 225 already.

So, your turn to tell me which modeler would be able to do this.

 

[signalpath]

Again have you tried the AXE FX 3
They have tons of ways to do what your asking even Helix you can add
An FX loop with external pedals
Axe fx has FX loops send and return you can put anywhere

They have scene ignore , I personally don’t use this stuff but I bet some of their experts could tell you how to do what you want
Just go and read the manuals if you haven’t,blocks guide they are very detailed .

That has been suggested a number of times previously but …

When you're hot, you're hot
And when you're not, you're not

Jerry Reed

 

[Sascha Franck]

An FX loop with external pedals

I said so more than once: no external pedals. I know how to do that, it's how my current setup works.

 

[Sascha Franck]

This is easily the dumbest argument I’ve seen on this forum yet

Thank you.
May I give that back? That's been the dumbest counter argument I've seen.
Who wins?